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  #25  
Old January 10th, 2013, 10:27 AM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Hmm... That one test doesn't convince me that your combo is broken. Especially since Gandalf isn't supposed to be able to move Large or Huge figures. The version in the OP of the Design thread has him moving Small/Medium figures only.
I agree, especially since Patrick's army had the Zettians and DW9000 which are not considered high-ranked figures. Patrick's army just doesn't seem like a competitive army to me--there are some pretty potent armies that can be fielded for 600 points (see below).

Not only that, but I played a battle before where the Omnicron Snipers, boosted by Taelord, took out Q9 in the first round. After that the battle was pretty much lopsided. Those kind of battles just happen sometimes.

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Of course, that would still leave Syvarris as an option with 5 attack and 5 defense (when he has height) when combined with Taelord and Raelin. I would like to see someone try that.
Since I saw this yesterday I've been trying to come up with some army options both for and against this combo:

Gandalf's army
Gandalf (180)
Taelord (180)
Syvarris (100)
Raelin (80)
+ 60 point filler
-----------------
(600 points)

Any suggestions for the extra 60 points?


Opposing Army suggestions
Here is where I'd really like to get suggestions. Let's assume a standard 24 hex start zone. I looked at the competitive 600 point army threads and Jexik's Tier army thread to try to get an idea of some tournament 600 point armies.

First, Jexik's Tier 1 armies:

Low Variance is for Chumps
3x Deathreavers (120)
Braxas (330)
Airborne Elite (440)
Marro Warriors (490)
Raelin (570)
+30 filler

Gruts
Raelin (80)
Grimnak (200)
Nerak (250)
4x Heavy Gruts (530)
+70 filler

KA123
10th x4 (300)
Marcus (400)
Nilfhiem (585)
+15 filler

My possible suggestions:

Gruts
Raelin (80)
Grimnak (200)
Tornak (300)
4x Heavy Gruts (580)
Marcu (600)

10th Regiment
5x 10th Regiment (375)
Marcus Decimus Gallus (475)
Krug (595)

10th Regiment-Rat Screen
4x10th Regiment (300)
2x Deathreavers (380)
Marcus Decimus Gallus (480)
Krug (600)

Soulborg Stealth
Q9 (180)
Nakita Agents (300)
Krav Maga Agents (400)
Ninja otNW (510)
Crixus (600)

Any suggestions on which army I should try first against Gandalf, or any other army suggestions you think would be good to try?
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  #26  
Old January 10th, 2013, 10:48 AM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Wow, I didn't add that up. I had no idea that army would be so expensive. For the last 60 points I suggest Darrak Ambershard (Sneak Attack shouldn't be too hard to use if the other figures are moving him nearby), Deadeye Dan (Gandalf can position him for easier sniping), or Shiori (she won't need OMs for position, so she can easily get one 4/4 turn per round). That army would probably be twice as good with either Raelin or Taelord swapped for rats. Gandalf makes a potent cleanup--man, he is versatile for 180 points...

As for the other armies, they all look good. It will be an issue of we can find a Gandalf build that easily or consistently beats armies like that. I would particularly like to see Gandalf against that "low-variance" army. However, I'd also like to continue to see playtests against armies that are more average or harder to play (but not bad). For instance, I really like Horned Skull Brutes with Rats or Phantom Knights and a strong Special Attacker or two (typically a ranged character like Q10 or Moltenclaw). Not really an A++ army but strong if played well.

Carry on.

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  #27  
Old January 10th, 2013, 01:10 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

For that last 60 points why not Zetacron. You could split your order markers between Gandalf and Zetacron since Zetacron will not bond with him. Backed by Taelord and Raelin, Zetacron could be throwig out some devastating ranged attacks.

Sounds like a very strong pod army to me.
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  #28  
Old January 10th, 2013, 01:19 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

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Originally Posted by Tiranx View Post
For that last 60 points why not Zetacron. You could split your order markers between Gandalf and Zetacron since Zetacron will not bond with him. Backed by Taelord and Raelin, Zetacron could be throwig out some devastating ranged attacks.

Sounds like a very strong pod army to me.
I thought about that, but Zetacron is Large, which means he can't be moved by Gandalf. Besides, Syvarris already fills the ranged damage-dealer role in that army.

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  #29  
Old January 12th, 2013, 06:14 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

NAME OF TEST UNIT: GANDALF
Version used
Spoiler Alert!


Gandalf, Taelord, Raelin (RotV), Syvarris, Darrak Ambershard vs 3x Deathreavers, Braxis, Raelin (RotV), the Airborne Elite, the Marro Warriors, and the Black Wyrmling
Map: White Knight’s Temple of Nycria


Braxis army wins (Braxis 4/8 life left, 12/12 Deathreavers left, 4/4 Marro Warriors left, and the Black Wyrmling left)

Pictured Battle Report
Spoiler Alert!


Comments
This was a complete blowout, and I think that it shows that the Gandalf/Raelin/Taelord/Syvarris combo isn't that powerful.

First, this is a terrible matchup for Gandalf with Syvarris. Even with Taelord, with 6 defense (from Raelin) and with Scatter the Deathreavers can tie up Syvarris and Gandalf indefinitely, allowing Braxas enough turns to eventually Acid Breath our heroes. I realized after the battle that I probably should have used Blazing Strike and Leadership to retreat Gandalf and the heroes to the far hill and at least given them height.

The other problem with this combo is that there is no real way to protect Raelin. As you drag her around, she becomes the main target. Rather than risk attacking Syvarris (defense 4 with Raelin) or Gandalf (defense 5 with Raelin), the Airborne Elite attacked her instead (3 defense).

Last, I just want to say that I can see why this is a the Braxas army is a Tier 1 army. It's just annoying and deadly. After the first round, by points, Gandalf's army was winning (-80 points, compared to Braxas's army which lost 110 points from the AE). But it still seemed like Gandalf's army was in an insurmountable hole at that point.

Last edited by White Knight; January 12th, 2013 at 06:25 PM.
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  #30  
Old January 12th, 2013, 06:24 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Those AE really messed you up. I'm curious why you moved for the center instead of camping on the leftmost heights and making them come to you. It looks like it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the battle, but with the right positioning maybe Syv would have been unengaged longer to put some more wounds on Braxas--it also would have kept you from being engaged with the rats so soon.

Thanks for the test, WK. Those pictured reports are a lot of work, but they're so much more descriptive of what's happening.

After seeing this test, I imagine a more powerful combo would be something like
180 Gandalf
260 Raelin
360 Syvarris
480 3xDeathreavers
maybe + Tandros Kreel @ 600 points
Although Kaemon Awa would also be a good pick for 600 points, Gandalf + Syvarris is already a lot of firepower, and Tandros would provide a lot of melee protection should the enemy pierce the screen.

The extra attack die from Taelord just does not seem as useful as a strong protective screen.

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  #31  
Old January 13th, 2013, 12:40 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Those AE really messed you up. I'm curious why you moved for the center instead of camping on the leftmost heights and making them come to you. It looks like it wouldn't have affected the outcome of the battle, but with the right positioning maybe Syv would have been unengaged longer to put some more wounds on Braxas--it also would have kept you from being engaged with the rats so soon.
One reason is that I hate camping on a hill--I like to engage. And the strategy worked pretty well with the grut orcs in my previous playtest. Gandalf ran to the center hill and slowly took down the orcs. But in this case camping on the hill would have been the best choice.

Another thing is that I decided not to use glyphs for this test, since the rats would have easily taken 3 glyphs without much opposition. Gandalf's heroes need to stay together, so at most they could contend for 1 glyph.

On the other hand, Braxas really didn't need to engage Darrak or Taelord. With 3x squads of rats still available, and with Darrak and Taelord with only normal attacks, I could have sent the rats to engage and then used Acid Breath until I eventually got enough 17+ rolls. Even if Darrak took out 1 rat every turn it would have meant several rounds of protection for Braxas.
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  #32  
Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:08 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

1) I'll try to get a playtest done soon!
2) I think we should do point totals of more around 500, which is pretty much the classic standard.
3) I'll try out Gandalf, Raelin, 3x Rats, and Kaemon.
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  #33  
Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:28 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Most of our playtests should fall in the realm of 500 points, but there is nothing wrong with testing at significantly higher or lower point values if we are concerned that there is a combo that is broken at that point value.

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  #34  
Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:41 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

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Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Most of our playtests should fall in the realm of 500 points, but there is nothing wrong with testing at significantly higher or lower point values if we are concerned that there is a combo that is broken at that point value.
Unless there is a combo we're concerned about, most of my playtests will be with 300 or 400 point armies.

1) I don't have a lot of time for playtests, so it will be easier for me to get playtests done.

2) Those lower point value armies put the focus on the figure being tested. We can test many figures in a 500 point Rat-podge army and not get a good feel for that figure's true worth.
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  #35  
Old January 23rd, 2013, 02:44 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

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Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Most of our playtests should fall in the realm of 500 points, but there is nothing wrong with testing at significantly higher or lower point values if we are concerned that there is a combo that is broken at that point value.
Unless there is a combo we're concerned about, most of my playtests will be with 300 or 400 point armies.

1) I don't have a lot of time for playtests, so it will be easier for me to get playtests done.

2) Those lower point value armies put the focus on the figure being tested. We can test many figures in a 500 point Rat-podge army and not get a good feel for that figure's true worth.
I have no problem with you running lots of 300-400 point tests. That's great. That just means our other testers will need to be sure to do enough 500-600 point tests. We'll also need to be sure not to base our decision off of one testers results, if/when possible.

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  #36  
Old January 23rd, 2013, 03:20 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

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Originally Posted by Name653 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Name653 View Post
Wait, does the Quick-Form ask for two battles, also?
I believe that the standard is for any playtest report to include at least two battles.
Ah, okay. I only did one. I'll try to do one with my brother soon.
You can post a playtest even if you've only done 1 playtest. Every battle report helps.
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