Sheep's Map Thread - New Map - 11/26/23

[Sheep]

2nd submission for ARV (I'm going to submit Refraction as well since I made it like two weeks before the contest was announced and it fits the requirements).

Just Enough...
Requires: 1 RotV and 1 TJ


Will get bios up soon.

[Sir Heroscape]

Are you looking for feedback before submitting those maps?

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Are you looking for feedback before submitting those maps?

Yeah feedback is welcome. I am changing the glyphs on Refraction to Gerda (land side) and Valda (water). Have played a couple games like that and it’s played much much better. I also have a slight aesthetic edit for it to make the sand on level 1 surround the 3-hex. Looks visually more progressive IMO.

[Sheep]

Nevermind.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I really like Just Enough...! Looks like a really cool base design that would encourage strategic games. That said, I do think it could use a few modifications. I'm most worried about the big hills being too rewarding to turtle play. I do think the two 3-hex hill just outside of the start zones are okay because the ruins limit them so well -- good way to make something defensive that won't also dominate the battlefield. The larger hills that are towards the middle of the map seem to favor leaving the start zone on the left too much, and I would move them just 1 hex further center (as in closer to the further start zone, not closer to the glyphs).

The hills just outside the start zones on the right are definitely problematic. They're limited with the few start zones available to get on them immediately, but kiting range can always retreat to it, especially dragons, to create a yours/mine situation that can be really annoying. I'd redesign those to open up the flanks more, maybe with a bit more level 2 to it to create better flow (as opposed to the one random raised single hex on those flanks).

I'd also see if you can raise the water around the glyphs to also be level 1 so that double-spacers can access the glyphs. And if I'm being really picky, I don't think the yours/mine treasure glyphs are needed or benefitting the map much (but I'm also never really a fan of yours/mine random glyphs -- if you get one better than your opponent's it's an automatic edge).

Really excited to see how this one turns out!

[Sir Heroscape]

Lol I forgot to respond. Looks like Bigga beat me to the punch. I agree with what he’s said. Overall I like the direction, just needs a few tune ups. I’d also add that the “gappy” look near the SZ where you can see under the board is a little distracting. Maybe fill that in...or take the picture at a steeper angle? Also, the “dip” in sand near the center tree seems pointless. I’d like to see that level or even raised up as a single elevation spot.

[Sheep]

Originally Posted by BiggaBullfrog

Spoiler Alert!

I really like Just Enough...! Looks like a really cool base design that would encourage strategic games. That said, I do think it could use a few modifications. I'm most worried about the big hills being too rewarding to turtle play. I do think the two 3-hex hill just outside of the start zones are okay because the ruins limit them so well -- good way to make something defensive that won't also dominate the battlefield. The larger hills that are towards the middle of the map seem to favor leaving the start zone on the left too much, and I would move them just 1 hex further center (as in closer to the further start zone, not closer to the glyphs).

The hills just outside the start zones on the right are definitely problematic. They're limited with the few start zones available to get on them immediately, but kiting range can always retreat to it, especially dragons, to create a yours/mine situation that can be really annoying. I'd redesign those to open up the flanks more, maybe with a bit more level 2 to it to create better flow (as opposed to the one random raised single hex on those flanks).

I'd also see if you can raise the water around the glyphs to also be level 1 so that double-spacers can access the glyphs. And if I'm being really picky, I don't think the yours/mine treasure glyphs are needed or benefitting the map much (but I'm also never really a fan of yours/mine random glyphs -- if you get one better than your opponent's it's an automatic edge).

Really excited to see how this one turns out!

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Spoiler Alert!

Lol I forgot to respond. Looks like Bigga beat me to the punch. I agree with what he’s said. Overall I like the direction, just needs a few tune ups. I’d also add that the “gappy” look near the SZ where you can see under the board is a little distracting. Maybe fill that in...or take the picture at a steeper angle? Also, the “dip” in sand near the center tree seems pointless. I’d like to see that level or even raised up as a single elevation spot.

Appreciate the feedback guys. I did mess around in VS quite a bit but the terrain is fully used and stretched to the max (which is the point of this contest), so it's really hard to reposition anything without a complete makeover. That said, I did a complete makeover and came up with a brand new map!

So here it is:

Hold Out
Requires: 1 RotV and 1 TJ

Uses 2 Wannoks, 2 Thorians, 2 Random Power Glyphs, and 2 Random Treasure Glyphs
- Recommended random Power Glyph Pool is Dagmar, Ulnavia, Lodin, and Kelda
- Recommended random Treasure Glyph Pool is Heroic Rune, Talisman of Defense, Searing Amulet [C3V], Ring of Protection, and Elixir of Speed
- Trap for the Treasure Glyphs is 1 wound to all figures on glyphs.

Map layout and glyphs are based off of Dignan's Fragment. Note that Thorian is only against normal attacks so special attacks still work and the jungle still provides cover against SAs. I really want to run some games on this to see how the glyphs play.

I have also reworked Refraction. After several games I wasn't entirely satisfied with how the water side was playing with the mirrored sand 3-hexes. Here's the rework:

Refraction
Requires: 1 RotV, 1 VW


With this version, I was able to get a single-hex rock on the less traveled side to the same level as the lava field on the more traveled side to hopefully provide more incentive to travel on that side. I did take out Gerda and put Valda in the water and Dagmar on the land. Looking forward to seeing how this improves the map.

Feedback on the Hold Out and the rework of Refraction is much appreciated as always! Might still fiddle around with Just Enough to see if there's anything that would work but we'll see how Hold Out plays first.

Edit: Just as I say I couldn't figure anything out for Just Enough... and took one last look at the inspiration, I figure something out so here's the .pdf of an updated Just Enough...

The sand in the middle underneath can’t be raised because it’s a 7-hex underneath the 24-hex.

[Sheep]

Game Tracker for Hold Out:

Game 1:
(heroscaper2010) Knights of Weston x3, Sir Gilbert, Sir Denrick, Sir Orrick, and Eldgrim the Viking Champion
(kevindola) Venoc Vipers x7, Elite Onyx Vipers, and Venoc Warlord

Spoiler Alert!

kevindola wins with 5 Venoc Vipers, 5-life Venoc Warlord, and Elite Onyx Vipers remaining.

The Vipers frenzied 5 times in the first 4 turns (including 2 times in the first turns of each round). Those frenzies combined with my 17/80 shields in the first 5 turns shot any chance I ever had. KD also won initiative the first 4 rounds before I won the 5th round but it was too late by then.

Game 2:
(heroscaper2010) Gladiatrons x3, Blastatrons x2, and Eltahale
(kevindola) Skeletons of Annellentia x2, Cyprien Esenwein, Sonya Esenwein, and Myrddin

Spoiler Alert!

kevindola wins with 5 Skellies and a 4-life Cyprien remaining.

KD bombed my not-well-thought-out positioned SZ (despite me placing 2nd) with Myrddin to start the game to destroy 4 Soulborgs. From there he Lightning-ed an adjacent soulborg twice, doing only two wounds to himself and dealing quite a bit of damage to the borgs around him. Sonya flew out to take KD's Thorian where she... ahem... held out (pun intended) long enough for the Undead to overrun my right flank to capture the other Thorian. From there the Skellies marched across the middle to clear out the rest of my army.

I really messed up with my army placement and with Eltahale at the end.

The glyphs seem to be playing really well. Thorian was rough for the Blast but Sonya held on way too long and if I placed Glads on my right flank I would've held off the Skellies from taking my Thorian after I got Sonya off KD's.

This is one that I think if I played again would have a different outcome (or at least be closer).

Game 3:
(heroscaper2010) Wolves of Badru x3, Werewolf Lord, Suskra, and Maltis Tez
(wargamingaddict87) Sir Dupuis and Phantom Knights x5

Spoiler Alert!

wargamingaddict87 wins with 1 Phantom Knight remaining.

Game started off in my favor with a lot of high attack Pounces to take out some Phantoms. Even a 4/4 attack on Dupuis landed 3 wounds. It came down to 2 squads of Phantoms vs. the Hybrids and a few Wolves. Suskra took a Treasure Glyph (Heroic Rune) and on the next turn rushed 2 PKs with OE to kill one of them. With 4-life left the 2 remaining PKs roll 3/3 skulls back to back to finish him. Down to Maltis and two Wolves vs. the 2 PKs. Each team moved one figure to Wound and knocked out a squad member. After initiative, a PK flew towards Maltis, where the last Wolf tried to pounce and failed. A misplaced OM on my side allowed WA87 to double his efforts to take out Maltis where 3/3 and 2/4 attacks were able to take care of her.

[BiggaBullfrog]

Been meaning to stop by here again. Hold Out is a pretty cool design, but when it comes to competitive play I don't really like having so many glyphs on a map, and especially Thorian since that does nothing to limit the power of a lot of strong figures like Nilfheim and Q9. It does look like a really fun map for a lot of formats, though, like ones that have more of a draft process to offset the quirks of the map.

I think that somewhere between Hold Out and Just Enough is a really strong competitive map. They both have really strong qualities with both design and aesthetics, but (for me) both are falling just short of "standard" competitive play.

[Sir Heroscape]

Oh dear...i totally forgot to comment here as well. Bigga voiced how I'm feeling. I actually felt like Just Enough wasn't that far off and just needed a few tweaks, so I was sad to see it go. For me, Hold Out is actually "less close". Way too many glyphs and I'm personally of the opinion Thorian should never be on a competitive map or in a tournament glyph pool. It swings the game too far to one side by completely negating a figures' ability. It makes it a little tougher sure for strong units like Nilfeim but much more difficult for units that "need" that ability like Sentinels or Minions. I will say that the short distance between opponents does make Thorian less of an issue, but that's also the very reason not to have it on the map; that is, if it's not going to have that much of an impact anyway, then don't have it.

I like Refraction...looks like a solid map

[Flash_19]

Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape

Oh dear...i totally forgot to comment here as well. Bigga voiced how I'm feeling. I actually felt like Just Enough wasn't that far off and just needed a few tweaks, so I was sad to see it go. For me, Hold Out is actually "less close". Way too many glyphs and I'm personally of the opinion Thorian should never be on a competitive map or in a tournament glyph pool. It swings the game too far to one side by completely negating a figures' ability. It makes it a little tougher sure for strong units like Nilfeim but much more difficult for units that "need" that ability like Sentinels or Minions. I will say that the short distance between opponents does make Thorian less of an issue, but that's also the very reason not to have it on the map; that is, if it's not going to have that much of an impact anyway, then don't have it.

I like Refraction...looks like a solid map

You're thinking of Ranneveig or however you spell it. Thorian is the one that prevents your figures from being targeted by normal ranged attacks.

I don't feel like either glyphs are appropriate for tournament play. I'd be interested to know if they've ever been used at GenCon ( @OrcElfArmyOne , any insights there?)

As for the map, I agree with what's been said by both Sir H and Bigga. I feel Just Enough was closer to the standard. They are definitely cool and interesting in terms of map design, but they are the kind of maps where the best experiences come as you draft for the map, and while I love playing those types of maps (and building them), they aren't standardized enough for tournament play. Certain armies will just be punished or favored too much.

[Sir Heroscape]

Oh oops haha. Yeah that. Well, I’d still agree there’s not a place for it in the competitive sense.