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Old October 1st, 2012, 01:46 PM
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Heroes of Middle Earth
Playtesting


This thread is created for the purpose of housing all units currently in the Playtesting stage. All units that are currently in Playtesting will be indexed in this post.


We ask that you not use any custom figures that have not been finalized by C3V, SoV, or HoME in your playtests.

Playtesting Form:
Spoiler Alert!



Units currently in playtesting
Cave Troll of Moria

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Last edited by capsocrates; July 3rd, 2020 at 06:28 PM.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:20 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

[B]NAME OF TEST UNIT:[/] Gandalf

THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
[insert answer]

FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
[My brother played Gandalf both games. He said: "I enjoyed Gandalf...but he would have been more fun had the dice rolled better."]

FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
[He was defiantly a challenge! He's not to difficult to kill, which is great, because it offsets his powerful offense!]

USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
[Yup, all of them were used.]

STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
[Yep! Especially his Blazing Strike SA, it gave him the ability to "hit and run".]

BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?
[insert answer]

SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
[A really good mix is Raelin or Talord. They work well with his Leadership ability.]

POWER CHECK: When considering the test unit against all existing units (including all finalized C3V, SoV, and HoME units) and all glyphs, are there any powers that could be overamplified and break the game? Each power should define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and what conditions (if any) apply.
[insert answer]

DRAFTING TEST: Is this unit worth drafting?
[insert answer]

MIRROR TEST: Consider the test unit against itself. Are there any loops that would upset the balance of the Game?
[insert answer]

ARMY TEST 1

Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
[insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary]


Map: [insert map]
Units: Army 1: [insert army 1] ([army 1 point total]) VS Army 2: [insert army 1] ([army 1 point total])
Spoiler Alert!


ARMY TEST 2

Did the unit perform adequately? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
[insert pass/fail, point value, and brief summary]


Map: [insert map]
Units: Army 1: [insert army 1] ([army 1 point total]) VS Army 2: [insert army 1] ([army 1 point total])
Spoiler Alert!


I'll answer the rest tomorrow. Right now I'm going to bed.
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Old November 16th, 2012, 09:22 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Thanks for the report JS. I did not think about Raelin...

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 04:20 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Is there a Gandalf rough draft that's been finalized for testing?

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Old November 17th, 2012, 04:59 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
Is there a Gandalf rough draft that's been finalized for testing?
There is not, I have no idea what version he is playtesting.

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Old November 17th, 2012, 05:39 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Good Pig View Post
Is there a Gandalf rough draft that's been finalized for testing?
We are approaching playtesting a little differently I this project. Basically, anyone can playtest a design anywhere in the process. Where the design is in the process will affect what we are looking for in those playtests.

Any playtesting done on a unit while in brainstorming is intended to see if the general feel of the powers feel right; when playing the unit, does it feel more or less like that character should feel? In this stage, we have our eyes open for things like points, balance, power level, etc., but we're mainly interested in seeing how it feels.

Any playtesting done on a unit while it is in the design phase will affect our tweaking decisions--do we adjust base stats, change the limits on a power, etc.

Depending on how much playtesting a unit has received by the time it reaches the Playtesting phase we should be able to focus in that section on getting the points right--although we will be open to adjustments, particularly if it has not been playtested very much or at all in earlier stages.

The only time that playtesting is required on a unit is while it is in the playtesting phase, so all playtesting before then is totally voluntary and optional. The main thing is to remember when playtesting early in the process is that a unit may experience significant changes from the version you playtest, so don't get too attached to it.

The reason we playtest throughout the process is because we can. We have numerous members who have stated that they can playtest one or more times a week. There is no reason for us to wait for a unit to reach the playtesting phase before we take advantage of that. A few playtests in the brainstorming stage can be very helpful in determining what's working and what needs to be scrapped or overhauled.



From now on, include the version of the card that you playtest in your report.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old November 17th, 2012, 05:40 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

JS used the Gandalf version here: Gandalf
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Old December 15th, 2012, 08:41 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Playtest of Gandalf
Version used:
Spoiler Alert!


NOTE: Test comments follow playtest summary.

- Army Test: Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
FAIL. Inspire Hope significantly overbalanced the game, both in attacks and added to Raelin's defensive aura.

Gandalf’s Fellowship vs. the Swarming Demons of Valkrill. With the release of the Hobbit, it seemed appropriate to put Gandalf at the head of a group of dwarfs, adding in Syvarris and Raelin for a classic HeroScape feel. And who better against Gandalf than a horde of goblins with their demonic masters.
The 180 points with the existing powers was underpriced.

Map: BoV Stygian Rift with no glyphs.
Units:
Army 1: 600 points – Gandalf, Syvarris, Raelin, Ulfrid, Axegrinders x2.
VS
Army 2: 600 points – Morgoloth, Skull Demons x2 [labeled BlueShield & GreatSword below], Mezzodemons x2, Goblin Cutters x4.

Army 1 wins in 8th round with: Gandalf [6 life], Raelin [5 life], Syvarris [2 life], 2 Axegrinders. Note that Raelin never took a wound, never even fought.

Write summary of battle here.
Gandalf led Syvarris and Raelin northwest up the rise while Ulfrid and the Axegrinders struck towards the center. Syvarris was quickly inspired to shoot up demons, striking off exoskeletons and hitting the GreatSword demon from afar. The Mezzodemons managed to wound Syvarris while the goblins swarmed from the rear. But with Raelin’s unwavering protection the heroes stood firm cutting down goblins and the BlueShield demon. Finally, Morgoloth waded into the battle and brought down Ulfrid. Gandalf engaged the dark lord, his blazing strike burning up the vermin swarming around Morgoloth, and while Gandalf held the center, the inspired Syvarris brought down the remaining Mezzodemons, then Morgoloth, and finishing with the GreatSword demon. The Axegrinders and Gandalf moved down the rise to finish off the goblin swarm.

Round 1: army 1 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. Gandalf moves northwest with Syvarris and Raelin following; Mezzodemons head northeast to the lava field. Ulfrid takes to the central rise; two Axegrinders follow Gandalf, two follow Ulfrid; goblins swarm northwest from the rear. Syvarris takes height by the eastern rock – he first hits a Mezzodemon for 4 wounds though the demon sheds its exoskeleton, and then lands 2 wounds on the GreatSword demon 9 spaces away; more goblins swarm towards the center from the rear.

Round 2: army 2 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. Mezzodemons enter the north central shadows and one lands 2 wounds on Syvarris despite Raelin’s aura; Gandalf joins Syvarris but fails to harm a Mezzodemon, Raelin moves behind Gandalf and Syvarris. BlueShield demon climbs the northwest rise; Ulfrid reaches the east central rock; two Axegrinders follow Ulfrid, one moves towards the center, and one heads southwest. Goblins clamber up the west central rocks; Syvarris strikes the Mezzodemons for 2 and then 3 wounds – 2 exoskeletons fall away.

Round 3: army 1 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. Syvarris strikes again at the Mezzodemons landing 2 wounds and destroying the last exoskeleton; BlueShield demon reaches the central shadows but it cannot penetrate Syvarris’ inspired defense. Ulfrid reaches the central lava field – with grim determination, Ulfrid strikes and fails and takes 1 wound, but strikes again and slays a Mezzodemon; four Axegrinders join the central battle – an attack on the skull demon fails but 1 goblin falls; Mezzodemons move into the center but attacks on Gandalf and an Axegrinder fail. Ulfrid with grim determination attacks and slays a second Mezzodemon; Axegrinder converge on the BlueShield demon and land 2 wounds and then 1 to destroy their monstrous foe; Goblins attack Ulfrid and the Axegrinders – 1 Axegrinder falls.

Round 4: army 1 wins initiative; Ulfrid is inspired. An inspired Ulfrid quickly kills 1 goblin; four Axegrinders move up from the rear; Goblins try to mob an Axegrinder but Raelin’s aura keeps the dwarfs standing firm. Ulfrid misses his attack on a goblin; so does one Axegrinder, but a second dwarf dispatches 1 goblin; Morgoloth moves up the central rise towards the battleground. Gandalf moves into the central shadow and kills 1 goblin – Ulfrid successfully leaves his engagement with a goblin to join Gandalf [NOTE: the Leadership power does not state whether a figure moved does or does not take leaving engagement attacks – I played that they would.]; Mezzodemons advance from the southwest and their poison cloud takes the life of 1 Axegrinder.

Round 5: army 1 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. A reinspired Syvarris gives Morgoloth 2 successive wounds; goblins swarm against Ulfrid and Axegrinders but cannot penetrate their defenses. Ulfrid misses his attack on a goblin; Axegrinders strike back against the goblins, bringing down 2; Morgoloth moves by the west central rock – while Ulfrid blocks an attack, 1 Axegrinder falls to the dark lord. Gandalf breaks from the goblins to stand against Morgoloth, though his attack does no harm; Goblins swarm and mob Ulfrid, landing 1 wound. Gandalf takes 1 wound on the hot lava field.

Round 6: army 2 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. Mobs of goblins take down 1 Axegrinder and give Ulfrid 1 more wound; Gandalf’s Blazing Strike does no harm to Morgoloth but incinerates 2 goblins – Gandalf holds his ground against the demon. Morgoloth ignores Gandalf, missing Ulfrid first, but then landing 2 fatal wounds on the dwarf leader; even without their leader, the Axegrinders burn for vengeance killing 2 goblins and giving Morgoloth 2 wounds. Mezzodemons move to height and kill 1 Axegrinder; the inspired Syvarris kills 1 and then the second Mezzodemons, removing that threat from the battlefield.

Round 7: army 1 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. Syvarris continues to strike quickly – Morgoloth takes 2 wounds and falls, then Syvarris pierces the distant GreatSword demon’s hide for 3 killing wounds; without the GreatSword demon, no 1st OM. With the demons dead, the Axegrinders surge forward and kill 1 goblin; the goblins still try to mob their foes and catch 1 Axegrinder alone to finish him off. Gandalf strides downslope into the goblin mob – his Blazing Strike destroys all 3 goblins; without Morgoloth, no 3rd OM.

Round 8: army 2 wins initiative; Syvarris is inspired. The last two goblins fail to harm their Axegrinder foes; the Axegrinders show no mercy and quickly finish the battle.

--------------------------------------
THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
PASS All the powers seemed appropriate and provided reasonable options for Gandalf during play.

FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
PASS Yes, got a great stand against Morgoloth, a couple Blazing Strikes to destroy 5 goblins.

FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
FAIL Inspire Hope just made Syvarris a killing machine every round -- on height, great range, and a +1 attack bonus on two attacks; and very difficult to take out on defense with height, a +1 defense bonus, and a +2 Raelin aura. If we want to leave this power in, I'd suggest once per game rather than once per round.

USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
PASS All were used: Leadership upfront to put Syvarris and Raelin in strategic positions; Inspire Hope throughout to let Syvarris strike at will; Blazing Strike twice to burn out goblin mobs.

STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
PASS Gandalf is a solid figure to put in the middle of the battle at 7 life and 4 defense along with Blazing Strike. It certainly allowed for fast hero movement, making opposition strategy more difficult.

BONDING TEST: Compare the unit card with all currently existing Bonding abilities. Are there any Bonding loops that do not stop appropriately?
PASS No bondings.

SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
FAIL Inspire Hope paired with Raelin's Defensive Aura makes a nasty combination to fight against.
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Old December 15th, 2012, 10:44 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by faure View Post
Playtest of Gandalf
Good playtest of Gandalf and great writeup.

I wonder if Taelord (180 points) would have had the same results with his +1 Attack Aura. Of course he probably wouldn't have killed as many figures as Gandalf, but Syvarris would have been just as deadly. (On the other hand, he wouldn't have been able to move Syvarris and Raelin along with him.)

I once made a swamp map with a tall bridge on it and played a game versus my son. I put all my order markers on Syvarris and got him onto the bridge. After that, with height, his 2 attacks, and his 9 range he pretty much decimated my son's entire army. Syvarris can do that with the right boosts. It helps if you have the Krav, or Sgt. Drake, to take him out.
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Old December 16th, 2012, 09:43 AM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Quote:
with height, his 2 attacks, and his 9 range he pretty much decimated my son's entire army. Syvarris can do that with the right boosts.
In one of the first Heroscape games I played with my son, I did much the same -- Syvarris just ripped through the army including a lucky shot at Mimring that killed the dragon in one blow.

Quote:
I wonder if Taelord (180 points) would have had the same results with his +1 Attack Aura. Of course he probably wouldn't have killed as many figures as Gandalf, but Syvarris would have been just as deadly. (On the other hand, he wouldn't have been able to move Syvarris and Raelin along with him.)
Yes, you could get similar results putting Taelord with Syvarris, but it requires more OM management to get them in the right spots and Syvarris doesn't get the extra defensive bonus at the same time. Plus Taelord is a bit more fragile than Gandalf at 5 life, 3 defense, no range, and no special attack. While Inspire Hope only affects a single figure, by thoughtfully working with Leadership it's pretty easy to keep a figure well boosted.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 09:16 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Here's my first report with the revised Gandalf (minus Inspired Hope) and I must say that it was an excellent battle! Very thematic and did not feel that Inspire Hope was missed at all.

- Army Test: Does it pass, Yes or No? What should be the unit's point value? Give a brief summary.
Put answer and summary here
PASS.
The Shadow Fellowship vs. Valkrill’s Goblins. Vydar’s allegiance is ever questionable but Jandar sends Gandalf and a small band of heroes to aid Vydar’s quest in Valkrill’s Goblin Hall.
The 180 points for Gandalf seemed to be right on target.

Map: Shadow Caverns scenario Goblin Hill with two treasure glyphs. Used scenario rules for Unstable Shadows, no flying.
Units:
Army 1: 500 points – Gandalf, Arkmer, Darrak Ambershard, Evar Scarcarver, Agent Carr.
VS
Army 2: 500 points – Racheim, Horned Skull Brutes x2, Goblin Cutters x2, Death Chasers of Thesk x2.

Army 2 wins in 8th round with: Racheim [1 life], 1 Goblin Cutter.

Write summary of battle here.
Though Death Chasers quickly jumped out to block the treasure glyph, Gandalf and company took out one Orc company and gained the Belt of Giant Strength. Gandalf’s band then headed south as Goblins and Orcs moved to surround them. A mob of goblins wounded Evar, just enough that Evar went repeatedly into Frost Rage, killing off 4 goblins and 2 horned skulls over 3 rounds. With other heroes taking out more horned skulls, it seemed like the company would readily gain passage.

But Racheim blocked the rocky gap, and aided by another mob of goblins, Carr fell. Arkmer got lost in the unstable shadows, emerging below a pair of orcs and he fell too. Gandalf’s blazing strike took out more orcs and goblins, but not enough. The orcs attacked and killed Evar. Darrak felt the frosty breath of Racheim and fell soon after. At last, Racheim squeezed through the gap to battle Gandalf. Though Gandalf used the Belt of Giant Strength he had recovered, it was not enough. Racheim’s initiative and triple attack was too much for the wizard and Gandalf fell at last as well.

Round 1: army 2 wins initiative. Deathchasers race forth along the north edge. Deathchaser continue and quickly block the treasure; Gandalf moves west to the shadow and lashes out with magic – 1 orc falls; Darrak, Evar, and Arkmer join Gandalf. Goblins move off to southeast and the big rock gap; Darrak takes the Belt of Giant Strength and kills 1 orc. Horned Skulls move east along north edge and into center; Evar attacks the orcs, killing 1.

Round 2: army 2 wins initiative. Goblins move east onto the central rise; Carr heads southwest towards the second treasure. More Horned Skulls advance joining their comrades; Gandalf moves southeast, up the central rise and is joined by Arkmer, Evar, and Darrak. Racheim crawls south into the west central part of the cave, unable to fly; Arkmer moves onto the edge of the south rise but misses an attack on a goblin.

Round 3: army 1 wins initiative. Gandalf moves quickly by the north big rock and his blazing strike kills 1 goblin – Gandalf retreats and is joined by Evar, Arkmer, and Darrak. Horned Skulls move south after the heroes. Carr moves up the center rise, fires, and kills 1 goblin; Orcs move south from the north edge of the cave. Darrak climbs the south rise getting close to the treasure; goblins swarm in by Evar, mobbing him and landing 2 wounds.

Round 4: army 1 wins initiative. Evar invokes his Frost Rage and strikes down 2 goblins while 2 others scurry around; Horned Skulls barge into battle – one gives Evar 1 wound, though another misses an attack on Gandalf. Gandalf’s blazing strike does no damage, but Gandalf moves up into the shadowy heights; Goblins swarm again, attacking Evar and Carr, but without success. Carr ghost walks through the goblins, reaching and striking down 1 Horned Skull with his Sword of Reckoning; Horned Skulls barge into battle again – Evar takes 1 more wound, though Carr is unharmed.

Round 5: army 1 wins initiative. Evar’s Frost Rage is so great he quickly slays 2 Horned Skulls; more Horned Skulls move in and engage Evar and Carr but attacks do no damage. Carr strikes again and slays 1 more Horned Skull – with many goblins falling, the heroes are feeling good; but Racheim reaches the big rock gap and his frost breath gives Carr 2 wounds. Arkmer’s magic takes down another Horned Skull, but the shadows shift and he finds himself in the shadow of the north big rock; the last Horned Skull takes height, avoids Arkmer’s engaging strike, and gives Arkmer 1 wound.

Round 6: army 2 wins initiative. Initiative shifts and the goblins mob the heroes – Carr takes 2 wounds and dies, though Evar and Gandalf remain unharmed; Evar is enraged and slays 2 goblins, though 2 others scurry away. The orcs ambush Arkmer – the elf hero takes 1 wound, then 3 fatal wounds; Gandalf chases the goblins onto the central rise and his blazing strike takes down 1 goblin and 1 orc – Gandalf retreats and is joined by Evar and Darrak as the heroes try to rally, though 1 last goblin scurries off north. Racheim is held back by the tightness of the gap and his frost breath is dispersed by Gandalf; without Carr, no 3rd OM.

Round 7: army 2 wins initiative. The last two orcs charge ahead – one deals out 1 wound and slays Evar before he can invoke his Frost Rage while the other gives Gandalf his first wound. With no Evar, no 1st OM. Racheim’s frost breath chills Darrak, who takes 2 wounds. Darrak uses his Sneak Attack to kill 1 of the orcs. The last Horned Skull charges and strikes giving Darrak 3 fatal wounds, and the dwarf drops the treasure as he dies; Gandalf moves and picks up the Belt, his blazing strike falls upon orc and Horned Skull, killing both.

Round 8: army 2 wins initiative. Racheim can finally squeeze through the gap and bring all heads against Gandalf – Gandalf fends off two attacks, but takes 1 wound on a third; Gandalf moves to height and with the Belt of Giant Strength lands 3 wounds on Racheim. Racheim fights back and Gandalf takes 1 wound, then 2 more; Gandalf counters and gives Racheim 1 more wound. As the fight continues, Racheim has 1 life left, Gandalf has 2, but Racheim has the initiative – Racheim scores 1 wound, Gandalf fends off a second bite, but the last head strikes and Gandalf takes 1 final, fatal wound. Racheim and a lone goblin claim the hall for Valkrill.


THEME TEST: Are there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that do not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character should be able to do? Also consider whether or not this character's powers should affect destructible objects.
PASS All the powers fit Gandalf quite well.

FUN TEST: Was the unit fun to play?
PASS Good use of Blazing Strike, led the company, great final battle with Racheim!

FUN OPPOSITION TEST: Was the unit acceptable to play against? Could it be considered annoying?
PASS No problems in this battle. Gandalf was tough, as expected, but not unbeatable.

USAGE TEST: Were all of the powers on this card used, or at least usable?
PASS All were used: Leadership used upfront to lead company out, then later to regroup heroes; Blazing Strike used effectively, and Gandalf retreated a couple times to get effective positioning to use Leadership. I thought it all worked well together.

STRATEGY TEST: Does the unit offer any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game?
PASS Gandalf was solid in the game -- used as centerpoint to rally and group around. Opponent had to pick apart heroes around Gandalf to get to him.

SYNERGIES TEST: Think of all the current cards that would have synergy with the unit card. Are there any factors that could break the game by making a unit too powerful or too weak?
PASS No problems in this test. Would be interesting to see the impact of Leadership with the elf heroes such as Emirroon and Ulginesh. Should have some more testing with Raelin since he can use Leadership to keep her close by.

Overall, a MUCH BETTER design.
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Old December 19th, 2012, 10:09 PM
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Re: HoME Playtesting Thread

Looking good. I'd like to see a few other opinions, but if Faure's pattern holds true I'd be happy to send him on to the next stage.

I would like to see more extensive testing with Raelin, however, as she can really mess this whole thing up.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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