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  #13  
Old February 7th, 2008, 09:09 PM
jaques jaques is offline
 
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The progression of Darth Vader is a lot more complicated and interesting than just whether he's a "great" villain or not. One of the things George Lucas has said he was trying to do in the prequel trilogy (let's not get into whether he did any of it well) was demonstrate the fact that bad guys are inherently pathetic and not worthy of admiration.

The "cool" Vader we see in SW and ESB is a guy who thinks he knows who he is. He has fantastic panache because he's had 20 years of brutal success in his endeavors to buoy his confidence. So he comes across as a bold, forceful, darkly charismatic character.

But the Vader we see at the end of RotS is nothing like that. He's a mixed-up young man who knows he's made the wrong choice and has been reduced to a barely-human monstrosity as a result.

With his failure to turn Luke to the Dark Side at the end of
Empire, Vader has a moment of real doubt. You can see it in the way he turns away from the viewing port after the Millenium Falcon disappears into hyperspace. One simple failure unravels 20 years of successes. Vader walks right past Admiral Piett, instead of Force-choking him like he's done to everyone else who failed him in the film. That's how rattled he is at Luke getting away -- he can't even take sadistic pleasure in killing scapegoats.

Then, by the time we reach Luke's surrender scene on Endor in Return of the Jedi, Vader is back in full pathetic mode. "It is too late for me, my son." He's clearly a pawn to the Emperor, and he knows it and doesn't even think he's man enough to do anything about it.

Finally, Luke's willingness to sacrifice himself rather than kill his father brings Vader full-circle back to the moment in which he made his original, horrific mistake. Instead of seeing good about to brutally slay evil (Mace Windu having the drop on Palpatine), he sees evil about to brutally slay good, and he finally makes the right choice.

Also, lol to everthing Fezzik said.
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  #14  
Old February 7th, 2008, 09:12 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by jaques
The progression of Darth Vader is a lot more complicated and interesting than just whether he's a "great" villain or not. One of the things George Lucas has said he was trying to do in the prequel trilogy (let's not get into whether he did any of it well) was demonstrate the fact that bad guys are inherently pathetic and not worthy of admiration.
You just saved me the rest of my evening!

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  #15  
Old February 7th, 2008, 10:40 PM
jaques jaques is offline
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by jaques
The progression of Darth Vader is a lot more complicated and interesting than just whether he's a "great" villain or not. One of the things George Lucas has said he was trying to do in the prequel trilogy (let's not get into whether he did any of it well) was demonstrate the fact that bad guys are inherently pathetic and not worthy of admiration.
You just saved me the rest of my evening!
Glad to be of service.

Also, lol to everthing Fezzik said.
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  #16  
Old February 7th, 2008, 11:08 PM
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  #17  
Old February 7th, 2008, 11:09 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooblar
Darth Vader has undeniable power. David Prowse, the actor who played Vader, is said to have been really deep in the role--sometimes the other actors wondered if he really thought he was Darth Vader!
Prowse in the house...

I think I heard him say something about "stinking medichlorians" under his breath.
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  #18  
Old February 7th, 2008, 11:11 PM
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I am a very complicated bad guy


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  #19  
Old February 7th, 2008, 11:48 PM
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Re: Darth Vader

Quote:
Originally Posted by MechaBeast
Who he beats:Sand people, Separatist leaders, Children Jedi, his wife, Obi wan(only because he gives up), Luke (after a whole 3 days of Jedi training) and The Emperor (in an amazing display of The Force and Jedi skill) and a butt load of droids (and who hasn't) Edit: Mace Windu gets a boot out a window.
You're forgetting lots of Vader victories. He wins the pod race and blows up the mothership in Phantom Menace (albeit in a very annoying, accidental way). He kicks centipede butt in II, then kills a bunch of those winged factory workers (Geonosans?). In III, you're missing his one-on-one defeat of Dooku and the adult Jedi we see him fight on the security hologram. In IV, credit him with some ship-to-ship kills in the Death Star trench. In V, he freezes Han Solo.
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  #20  
Old February 8th, 2008, 12:15 AM
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and he chops off lukes hand.

What a cool dad.

Bach is Marcus... and has been paralyzed by the minions of Ne-gok-sa in the SIENNA CAVE...
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  #21  
Old February 8th, 2008, 12:57 AM
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'Scaper Zeta 'Scaper Zeta is offline
 
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'Scaper Zeta Woo who?
Not to mention all of those pesky Jedi that he kills during the Great Jedi Purge.
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  #22  
Old February 8th, 2008, 02:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 'Scaper Zeta
Not to mention all of those pesky Jedi that he kills during the Great Jedi Purge.
Ya he kills alot in the books. Quite impressive...
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  #23  
Old February 8th, 2008, 11:22 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Taeblewalker
Quote:
Originally Posted by Nooblar
Darth Vader has undeniable power. David Prowse, the actor who played Vader, is said to have been really deep in the role--sometimes the other actors wondered if he really thought he was Darth Vader!
I heard him talk on the radio whe Episode 2 or 3 was about to come out. He had some very bitter things to see about the whole experience, and about a jibe about "the Jar-Jar Binks character." He wasn't happy that they didn't use his voice in the movies. I have also heard that he was the leak that was giving away storylines. I wonder where you heard the bit you stated above, about how deep he was in the role? I would enjoy reading the article.
I'm terrible at remembering where I read things. It could have been one of Uncle John's Bathroom Readers or something I saw on YouTube. I don't have my BRs at college, and good luck searching YouTube Sorry I couldn't be more help.
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  #24  
Old February 8th, 2008, 05:23 PM
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Metaknight Metaknight is offline
 
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I like Darth Maul. He's so much cooler, they have a whole book series for him, and is shown to be a lot minor than he is.

He's been an assasin for the emperor for 12 years! He's was like the best Sith ever! He only lost 1nce too! He is considered a weapon...

See Valhalla like never before:
Airborne Elite in the
BYZANTINE CAVE...
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