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  #3901  
Old November 26th, 2019, 01:29 PM
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Well met!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
In any event, the white hair and red cape go with a vampire-like creature as much as anything else
oh dear...unfortunately that is far from what you need in order to build a theme for an Undead figure. I mean, all the Vampires that exist have Black hair and white pale skin and fangs...and a red cape has nothing to do with whether or not a mini has a certain species. this just won't do, I'm sorry.
The 3d render does have an emancipated rib cage that gives off a lich vibe. I’m not sure how well it comes out in the actual figure (Pathfinder can have some trouble translating finer details from concept to proof).


Lena, Vampire
from Underworld Bloodwars





Demetria, Undead
Heroscape








Last edited by IAmBatman; November 26th, 2019 at 03:16 PM. Reason: Well met?
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  #3902  
Old November 26th, 2019, 02:16 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Again, simple aesthetics of a mini like hair color and cape color do not a species make. Meaning, just because your mini happens to have the same hair color of some character in a show who was a vampire and also the same cape color as some of our heroscape vampires does not make her a vampire or undead. As a designer myself, it's easy to get personally attached to designs we work on and have invested time in...but I'm sorry, this mini does not suggest vampire or undead. Just trying to help you here.

edit: also please delete that post with all the weird coding/gibberish...not sure what you did there, but that's kind of an issue :P

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  #3903  
Old November 26th, 2019, 02:36 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!

Again, simple aesthetics of a mini like hair color and cape color do not a species make. Meaning, just because your mini happens to have the same hair color of some character in a show who was a vampire and also the same cape color as some of our heroscape vampires does not make her a vampire or undead. As a designer myself, it's easy to get personally attached to designs we work on and have invested time in...but I'm sorry, this mini does not suggest vampire or undead. Just trying to help you here.

I hear you. However, I'm not certain that your opinion is not an outlier. If it turns out that Undead, Succubus or Demon, or some other Species that can carry some power similar to Life Drain and/or Enslave 17, is is a deal breaker for this figure, I'll of course look for another - and undoubtedly change her Special Attack - essentially putting her on the back burner. But, in the mean time, I'll test her roughly as she is.

edit: also please delete that post with all the weird coding/gibberish...not sure what you did there, but that's kind of an issue

I asked the admins to delete it. A bad pic paste put eternal code in it.


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  #3904  
Old November 26th, 2019, 02:38 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post

I asked the admins to delete it. A bad pic paste put eternal code in it.


You can still edit your own post and just delete the content in it. Just blank it out.

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  #3905  
Old November 26th, 2019, 02:57 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post

I asked the admins to delete it. A bad pic paste put eternal code in it.
You can still edit your own post and just delete the content in it. Just blank it out.

My finger is sore, but it's done.

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  #3906  
Old November 26th, 2019, 03:02 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!


How about Elf or Drow?

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  #3907  
Old November 26th, 2019, 09:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

She actually reminds me of the Castlevania's style of Vampires. Specifically Carmilla who has been featured in a number of Castlevania games and recently the Netflix animated series.

Here are some pics of her.

https://images.app.goo.gl/Ud8fvnCc2Y7HjnmSA

https://images.app.goo.gl/qXT2uAqc1UZKmWai8

If you look her up on pinterest, there are a lot of images of her, some of which are probably PG in nature that I won't share here since this is a G rated forum.

With her sword, she is like a female Alucard from Castlevania.

https://images.app.goo.gl/G5326bGZmcq75NyT7

It would be helpful to see her mini standing next to the other vampires of Heroscape so that others who are on the fence can make a judgment call.
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  #3908  
Old November 26th, 2019, 11:47 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Toogwick_tuk View Post
I'm brainstorming on a way to get a similar effect, but less complicated. I'm not sure if it still is too complicated though. Here's what I have so far:


Also, I was wondering if there are any opinions on the class and personality. I was thinking of changing his class to warhulk potentially because doesn't play very much like a guard and tends to be on the front line trampling the enemy. He would lose some synergy, but the crypt guardians don't help him much and he works just fine on his own. Making him wild might be interesting, but I'm against it because I'd prefer him to be a solo hero.
This looks like a solid direction to me and I love the sculpt here. Are there any denial issues with placing some taller figures like the Kyrie in front of him? It looked like the shields lean out over the spaces a bit.

I agree with your assessment that Guard doesn't really match his playstyle. The sculpt could certainly make sense as a guard, but Warhulk makes more sense for the disruptive style of charging into the frontlines and pushing enemy figures away. The biggest synergy loss IMO is that Warden 816 couldn't boost his move (and thus Bulldoze) anymore, but that's not something to lose sleep over.

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post

General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warrior
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 3


Points 120

LIFE DRAIN
Each time Demetria destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Demetria cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

SONIC SWORD SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3, Attack 3
Choose a figure to attack. You may also choose one other figure adjacent to the targeted figure to be affected by Sonic Sword Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for both figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

ENSLAVE 17
When revealing an order marker on Demetria, after taking Demetria's turn, you may choose any Unique Hero figure within 4 spaces of Demetria. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 17 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All order markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.
I don't really have a problem with Demetria being an Undead. It's a very vague classification anyway, and I'm perfectly fine with seeing her as a Succubus rather than Vampire even if she has Life Drain. Perhaps a class change to Succubus would better convey that theme, but I can live with it either way.

Sonic Sword Special Attack doesn't feel like a vital part of the design to me. She's already powerful with Enslave and a solid attack Life Drain, so adding a multi-targeting Special Attack on top of that feels somewhat excessive to me. VC in general has a lot of multi-attackers with Special Attacks at the 120 point range, so perhaps it's a bit of fatigue in that area as well.

Quote:
General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Warlord
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Points 120

FASCES SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1, Attack 3
When Rania attacks with
Fasces Special Attack, add an additional Attack die for each friendly figure within 2 clear sight spaces of her, to a maximum of +3 Attack dice.

ULLAR'S LIGHT
After Rania wounds an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, you may move 3 squad figures you control who follow Ullar up to 3 spaces each.
Why is Fasces a Special Attack? It feels better to match Sir Dupuis' Knight's Courage here. We do have Special Attacks adding attack dice for nearby figures as well (notably with the Elven Wizards), but those are typically more magical in nature. I'm not sure what the intended theme is with the name Fasces, but it feels closer to Sir Dupuis being bolstered by his troops thematically to me.

I think that the suggestion to limit the attack boost to only Ullar figures has been made since this post, but I'd support that restriction as well. Any kind of a power boost like that is significantly more powerful with the cheap (and plentiful) Romans than it will be with the Armoc Vipers or any other existing Ullar units.
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  #3909  
Old November 27th, 2019, 01:25 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!

Commenting internally in purple.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post

General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warrior
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 3


Points 120

LIFE DRAIN
Each time Demetria destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Demetria cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

SONIC SWORD SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 3, Attack 3
Choose a figure to attack. You may also choose one other figure adjacent to the targeted figure to be affected by Sonic Sword Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for both figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.

ENSLAVE 17
When revealing an order marker on Demetria, after taking Demetria's turn, you may choose any Unique Hero figure within 4 spaces of Demetria. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 17 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All order markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.
I don't really have a problem with Demetria being an Undead. It's a very vague classification anyway, and I'm perfectly fine with seeing her as a Succubus rather than Vampire even if she has Life Drain. Perhaps a class change to Succubus would better convey that theme, but I can live with it either way.

So can I. In an earlier draft, I had her Species as Succubus, and

SUCCUBUS
When a figure adjacent to [Demetria] is destroyed, remove one wound marker from [Demetria]’s card.


Sonic Sword Special Attack doesn't feel like a vital part of the design to me. She's already powerful with Enslave and a solid attack Life Drain, so adding a multi-targeting Special Attack on top of that feels somewhat excessive to me. VC in general has a lot of multi-attackers with Special Attacks at the 120 point range, so perhaps it's a bit of fatigue in that area as well.




Demetria's sword implies a special attack to me. If only a single target is permitted, I'm inclined to go with one of the following:

SONIC SWORD
Choose an opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Demetria. Roll the 20-sided die. On a roll of 13 or higher, that figure receives a wound.


SONIC SWORD
Range 4, Attack 3
Choose an opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Demetria to attack with Sonic Sword.The chosen figure rolls 2 fewer defense dice.


Speaking of Class, I'm thinking, in tandem with Rania and with only a single attack, of making her a Warlord, in which case I'd shorten the range of her Special Attack to 1.


Quote:
General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Warlord
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Points 120

FASCES SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 1, Attack 3
When Rania attacks with
Fasces Special Attack, add an additional Attack die for each friendly figure within 2 clear sight spaces of her, to a maximum of +3 Attack dice.

ULLAR'S LIGHT
After Rania wounds an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, you may move 3 squad figures you control who follow Ullar up to 3 spaces each.
Why is Fasces a Special Attack? It feels better to match Sir Dupuis' Knight's Courage here. We do have Special Attacks adding attack dice for nearby figures as well (notably with the Elven Wizards), but those are typically more magical in nature. I'm not sure what the intended theme is with the name Fasces, but it feels closer to Sir Dupuis being bolstered by his troops thematically to me.

Although originally presented as a leadership power, this Special is actually a dependent power. Rania's sword implies a Special Attack to me also. I'm really tempted to copy Demetria's:

ULLAR'S LIGHT
Range 1, Attack 3
Choose an opponent's figure to attack with Ullar's Light. The chosen figure rolls 2 fewer defense dice.

or, preferably, to go with this one:

ULLAR'S LIGHT
Range 1, Attack 3
Choose an opponent's figure to attack with Ullar's Light. Rania may re-roll all attack dice that did not show skulls.

Then I'd re-name the movement Special:

ULLAR'S BATTLE CRY
After Rania wounds an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, you may move 3 squad figures you control who follow Ullar up to 3 spaces each.


I think that the suggestion to limit the attack boost to only Ullar figures has been made since this post, but I'd support that restriction as well. Any kind of a power boost like that is significantly more powerful with the cheap (and plentiful) Romans than it will be with the Armoc Vipers or any other existing Ullar units.

Made moot. We'd now have:




DEMETRIA REYJYRE


General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warlord
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 3


Points 120

LIFE DRAIN
Each time Demetria destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Demetria cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

SONIC SWORD
Range 1, Attack 3
Choose an opponent's figure within 4 clear sight spaces of Demetria to attack with Sonic Sword. The chosen figure rolls 2 fewer defense dice.


ENSLAVE 17
When revealing an order marker on Demetria, after taking Demetria's turn, you may choose any Unique Hero figure within 4 spaces of Demetria. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 17 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All order markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.





RANIA REYJYRE

General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Warlord
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Points 120


ULLAR'S LIGHT
Range 1, Attack 3
Choose an opponent's figure to attack with Ullar's Light. Rania may re-roll all attack dice that did not show skulls.


ULLAR'S BATTLE CRY
After Rania wounds an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, you may move 3 squad figures you control who follow Ullar up to 3 spaces each.


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  #3910  
Old November 27th, 2019, 06:55 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I feel like you stripped out the stuff I liked from your designs.

Making Demetria a Warlord is a mistake and would get a downvote from me and probably others. It's not a unit I want to see bond with Romans, and we've gone far enough with making Warlords. I do agree in general that having three powers is too many on this design. Life Drain and Enslave are already special enough. Making a design to match something about a mini (the sword, in this case), is something that's way overdone in VC. The sword doesn't need a power. Life Drain + Enslave is plenty interesting. Why does she need a ranged attack, and how is she able to Life Drain from a distance?

The combination of Ullar's Battle Cry and the prior version of the special attack had a cool synergy. It also worked well with being a warlord (with Bonding). You lost that with this version. This version of the special attack is barely interesting, mostly just for the fact that it's a special attack. I'd rather you just dropped it at this point.

One thing in general with these designs is a lack of any weakness. That can be ok, but it makes designs less interesting. A benefit to the Sonic Sword change to Demetria is that it takes away her multi-target attack, which gives her a weakness to squads. I like that about it (though simply dropping the power accomplishes that). Rania has good Defense, unusual for an Elf, and good Life, along with solid stats otherwise. Bonding ensures that it doesn't matter she can only attack a single target. A special attack doesn't just shore up a potential weakness for her, it does so for stuff she bonds with too. She's a decent fighter with a good cheerleading ability--no real weaknesses. Be careful making all-rounder units; they not only have to be expensive but it makes them less interesting to play with and against.
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  #3911  
Old November 27th, 2019, 07:23 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop



Well met!


I hear you. I'm thinking you want something like this:





DEMETRIA REYJYRE

General Utgar

Unique Hero
Species Undead
Class Warrior
Personality Terrifying


Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 5
Defense 3


Points 120

LIFE DRAIN
Each time Demetria destroys a figure, you may remove a wound from this Army Card. Demetria cannot Life Drain destructible objects.

ENSLAVE 17
When revealing an order marker on Demetria, after taking Demetria's turn, you may choose any Unique Hero figure within 4 spaces of Demetria. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 17 or higher, take temporary control of the chosen Hero and immediately take a turn with that Hero. At the end of that turn, control of the chosen Hero returns to its previous owner. All order markers that were on the figure's Army Card will stay on the Army Card.





RANIA REYJYRE

General Ullar

Unique Hero
Species Elf
Class Warlord
Personality Valiant

Size Medium 5

Life 5
Move 5
Range 1
Attack 4
Defense 4

Points 120

ULLAR'S COURAGE
Add 1 to Rania's attack dice for every figure that follows Ullar within 4 clear sight spaces of Rania up to a maximum of +3 dice.

ULLAR'S BATTLE CRY
After Rania wounds an opponent's figure with a normal or special attack, you may move 3 squad figures you control who follow Ullar up to 3 spaces each.



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  #3912  
Old November 27th, 2019, 07:31 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
I hear you. I'm thinking you want something like this
(added bold for emphasis)

I think this is the inherent issue here with these designs...designing has NOTHING to do with what he or we or any of us want. Your customs are what YOU want. First and foremost as a designer you need to love what you're making, not trying to necessarily please all of us. We'll have our opinions and try to help you realize issues if it's something you're going for the SoV...but we'd rather you focus on what your own vision is then trying to please the general public.

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