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  #1  
Old March 10th, 2011, 02:38 PM
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New tournament format?

Pre-set Classic Matches

So here's the idea: 20 or so people file into a Heroscape tournament and find 10 boards each pre-set with 2 of 20 armies. 5 swiss rounds are played and scores are tabulated as per usual. The armies remain at the boards throughout the tournament! This would allow players to experience some great classic match-ups AND not be limited by their collections.

Here are some early thoughts. Please add additional suggestions and what map you would think ideal.

Knights of Weston VS Heavy Gruts
Dwarves VS Capuan Gladiators
Deathwalkers and Rats VS the Jandar "Boy Scout" robots
Lava VS Cold on a map that has both terrain!
Vampires VS Werewolves
Gladiatrons VS KRS army (wow... that could be great... although could be tough on an inexperienced B-tron player)

To see actual builds and maps... click on spoiler
Spoiler Alert!

Louisville Monthly Tournament
"I am a much better player than my record would indicate."

Last edited by El Diabolo; April 8th, 2011 at 04:58 PM. Reason: Adding match-ups!
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  #2  
Old March 10th, 2011, 02:57 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Maybe in one of your upcoming tourneys you could have this set-up?
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  #3  
Old March 10th, 2011, 03:25 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Classic matchups in the sense that they are evenly balanced armies relative to each other? (both armies have a signature strength as well as a weakness the other side can exploit) The real challenge will be creating each army and what it faces.

Or

If your goal is to test the player's skill, then the exact same army would be sitting on both sides of the board and the test comes from whether they know how to properly play it or not. One board is melee (knights vs knights), one is ranged (10th vs 10th), etc. Even better, make sure there are some armies that are harder to play (like HSB w/goblins, for example). In other words, exactly equal armies make it more like a chess match. That's less in the spirit of the game, though, when you possibly remove much of the rock-paper-scissor element.


Or classic matchups in terms of theme?

Spartacus
(Romans vs. Gladiators)

Lord of the Rings
(Elves vs Orcs)

Underworld
(Vampires vs Wolves)

Themed armies would be by far the most fun, but not necessarily the fairest method of determining a champion if the armies in question can't be balanced. Then it comes down to the dice/roll coin-flip over who got to play which army unless you can set it up where players get to play both sides, but that's a longer format.

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Old March 10th, 2011, 05:06 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Love the idea. In addition to removing experienced players from their comfort zone (sometimes), it also gives n00bs,like yours truly, a chance to experience a ton of different units in different situations to better undersand what they want out of their army.

I like the theme idea, but I think it's much more important for the armies to be balanced evenly than for the games to fit a theme. If it's too one-sided, it would just get frustrating for the less-fortunate players. Still, balancing shouldn't be too hard.

Sounds like an interesting way to play!
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Old March 10th, 2011, 05:47 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Interesting thought, El Diabolo.

Here's a link to an event in our area a few months ago where we sort of went halfway: we had preset armies and each player brought his own army to use against the preset armies, and also used the preset armies against his opponent. So each round was two games.

That's something you'd have to grapple with and maybe you'd do it the same way: for it to be fair, people should get to use both sides of each preset board.

Looks interesting, though. And you could build thematic maps, too, something in a dungeon for your werewolves & undead, and so on.

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  #6  
Old March 10th, 2011, 06:40 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

I like the idea and had a similar one concerning a dungeon crawl style tourney. 5 - 6 maps, each with preset 'monster' armies. Then each player brings his or her adventuring party and both players take turns playing the 'monsters' vs. the other players adventuring party. Keep score of how well each did, then move on to a new board (changing players too) and repeat.

For my idea though, I was considering using maps that were not mirror based and 'monster' armies that may have more or less points then the adventuring party it would face. You could balance the match by giving one side terrain advantages or a generally weak 'monster' army more points. If you are striving for a balanced match using themed armies, then keeping the points totals the same for both armies might be difficult. Some armies just are not as good as their themed counterpart.
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Old March 10th, 2011, 06:55 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Funny-- Wookie and I were just discussing the same idea at my last tournament! I called it "Glued to the Board" because the armies stayed at the board instead of traveling around. At first I considered the "Mirror Army" idea (identical armies against each other), but Wookie thought it might be too confusing, especially with squads. That left it to different armies, but, as previously mentioned, the KEY is finding REALLY, REALLY balanced match-ups. I figured it was going to be too hard for me to figure out, but I think he was considering pursuing it.

The idea allowed for the use of lesser used figures and really focuses on the skill of the player instead of the power of the army-- big plus.

The big minus, like I already mentioned, is finding good match-ups and good boards for the match-ups. I betcha there's a bunch of people on these boards that miiiiight be able to help with that, though. Not just "I think this would be a good match-up"...I mean "I've tried this pair out a bunch of times and it's a toss up."

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Last edited by Johnnylama; March 10th, 2011 at 07:05 PM.
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  #8  
Old March 10th, 2011, 09:53 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

I thought this was a good idea when your daughter first pitched it and I still like it. It probably wouldn't be too hard to create 20 non-overlaping armies. The difficulty would be matching them up relatively evenly. But I think to counter-act that, we could maybe have the lower-ranked player choose their army first (except for the first round of course).

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  #9  
Old March 10th, 2011, 10:21 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
I thought this was a good idea when your daughter first pitched it and I still like it. It probably wouldn't be too hard to create 20 non-overlaping armies. The difficulty would be matching them up relatively evenly. But I think to counter-act that, we could maybe have the lower-ranked player choose their army first (except for the first round of course).
Or have small armies & switch off, two battles each round, so everyone gets a chance with every army.

That was the tourney I linked above, we had 16 people, four maps & four map-linked armies with two sets of each map. The way the numbers worked everybody got to play each round on a different map and, once there, used both armies. At our event they used the army they'd brought & the "house" army; at your event the only difference would be they'd use two "house" armies.

It's a great idea. I highly recommend 2-battle rounds.

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  #10  
Old March 10th, 2011, 10:27 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

There are a lot of kids at our tournaments, and one who likes to take particularly long planning his moves. Two-game rounds is definitely a good idea, I just wonder how feasible it is in 50-minute rounds to keep the total tourney time to ~5 hours. Looks like you all did well, though.

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  #11  
Old March 10th, 2011, 11:13 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

We had kids, too. What we did was we lowered the number of rounds to 4 and we kept the army size - and the maps - very small. Remember, each round is 2 games; more than 4 rounds and even *your* brains will be fried, it would be a mistake to try for 5.

Don't get me wrong, it was a lot of work to prepare because everything had to be customized, but it was a special event.

One thing we learned early, and this isn't anywhere in the thread, is that if you have 16 people and 2 sets of four maps then everyone gets to play on each one. That's important, because this is almost scenario play so everyone will want a taste of everything, and four brand new maps and eight balanced armies are going to be more than enough work for the TD in advance.

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Last edited by Dad_Scaper; March 10th, 2011 at 11:26 PM.
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  #12  
Old March 12th, 2011, 02:49 PM
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Re: New tournament format?

Ok... I have heard that a tournament like this has been done before... is there a thread with what match-ups worked well?

To answer Deroche's point about what kind of matches constituted "classic." I think the guiding aesthetic has to be "how much fun would that be to play?" Once that bar is passed, the second consideration would be "Does that pre-set offer a roughly equal chance of victory to both players?"

With that in mind, here is my first thought for 2 Armies and a board that I like:

3x Knights of Weston 210
Sir Gilbert 315
Nilfheim 500

VS

3x Heavy Gruts 210
Ornak 310
Grimnak 430
Nerak 480
Marcu Esenwein 500

On - Highways and Dieways

Inspiration: The old game "Crossbows and Catapults"

I think this would be a blast to play. I would love to see Nilfheim go up against the T rex and Nerak. Also both players get to use Flagbearer dice.

Thoughts?

Louisville Monthly Tournament
"I am a much better player than my record would indicate."
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