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  #409  
Old October 30th, 2017, 06:18 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I brought the Darkprowl Thralls to the Idaho NHSD, and I must say that they are a bit better than a C. I'd put them at C+. Though they all died doing it, 3 of them took Cyprien down to 1 health round 1, and then he died first turn of the second round in one match up. You shouldn't lead with them, but they can be very useful in a Thrall build, just by adding a ranged option. 5 Attack from a special is pretty good on the vast majority of Small and Medium figures. In any case, in every game I played, I got a lot more use out of them than I did the Preyblood Thralls, who are ranked C, so I feel they should be a little bit higher.

On a side note, The Bloodburst Thrall Ruptured exactly once in 5 games with 4 of them in the army, and Nicholas reviving them more than any other thrall. I think I rolled for it about 28 times all together.
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  #410  
Old October 31st, 2017, 04:23 AM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

C+ is fine with me, I didn't really know for the Darkprowl Thrall, I just know the Thrall army isn't so great and Darkprowl seemed roughly as good as the others, but with 1 defense if engaged.

Thralls are pretty cool but they need more than just Nicholas to make them competitive. Maybe in the future they'll get a big boost.
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  #411  
Old October 31st, 2017, 01:27 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Here's where I am now; discuss if you like. I'll update the first post once discussion settles down.

20th Maine Volunteers - They’re a common ranged squad… but using their defensive power makes it harder to leverage their common-ness, and using their offensive power makes it harder to leverage their range-ness. B-
53rd North Carolina Sharpshooters - A ranged squad that can kite melee and force opposing range off of height. 2 attacks in a turn isn’t ideal but it’s fine if your opponent struggles to shoot back. B
Achillean Gladiatrix - We know from MBS and others that a ranged figure bonding with a melee squad is a valuable asset. However, a fairly expensive 3-defense common isn’t ideal, and the timing of Javelin remains frustrating. B-
Ashi-Dhulu - Matchup dependent and lacking any significant synergy, but pretty devastating against expensive commons. B
Asterios - The 120 point standalone hero field is a crowded one, for sure, and Asterios is far from the top of the heap. But against squad armies Asterios will have little trouble earning his value. B+
Beorn Boltcutter - the cheapest Dwarf Hero, and buffing Zetacron is pretty sweet. Still, not quite on the level of the top Dwarf Heroes. B
Bramcephys a terrifying army in a box, but struggles to earn his massive cost. C+
Brute Gruts - Berserk all day long with these guys. Not super consistent but at 65 points they will earn their place more often than not. B+
Cormin the Dark - Decent in a Deathreaver build, but there are better ways to spend your OMs. An awkward intersection of powers makes it hard to find a spot to use him. C+
Darkprowl Thrall - Fun power set, but quite reliant on those powers thanks to rather low stats. C
Durgeth Ravagers - shredded by ranged commons, but they hit like a truck and have a solid bonding option. B
Executioner 616 - The math on spending an attack to kill your own figures is rarely favorable. Still, decent stats of her own, and Zettian Infantry and Hoplitrons provide bonding options (and potential explosives) B-
Garrett Burns - One power is niche and the other is fairly easy to work around. Still, 3 attack at 7 range. C+
Heracles - It’s hard for an expensive non-bonding melee figure to be very good, but Heracles kind of bonds with himself once a round, and throw is nice too. A-
Hrognak - Adding a ranged attack to a strong melee bonding core is a big deal, but 2 attack at 5 range is only a game changer in a fairly narrow range of matchups. B+
Jarek Guy - Not a powerhouse, but that little bit of range makes gives him the versatility to not feel like a waste when you turn to him. B
Josie Whistletop Discount Skahen; her range isn’t long enough to keep herself safe from being engaged and taken out. B-
Kon-Tar-Na - Pretty dependent on hitting his first kill to get those double attacks. High mobility is great but the nagrubs can struggle to keep up if he’s your only Hivelord. B+
Nottingham Brigand - 2 long range attacks of 3 is already decent. More strong bonding options will open things up for these guys. B
Patrick Ferguson - His negative power really cuts into the benefit of his positive power. Still, one of the toughest heroes for the price. B-
Pel the Hill Giant - Pel is a nice beatstick that bonds with everything. His negative powers are not too crippling. B+
Prince al'Kahora - His power combo seems odd at first, but actually gives him nice options in cleanup. B-
Red Ants of Aunstrum - 4-figure squads that only cost 10 points per figure can’t be that bad, but the Red Ants don’t really have any particularly good matchups. C+
Seleena - cheap range makes her a near auto-include in any WWL army, and decent filler in an Agent build. Outside of those armies, better filler options are available, though. B
Sentinels of Grax - Kind of like melee marro warriors with double the stats and price and half the figure count. Awfully swingy, but like Marro Warriors they can be a near auto-win in some endgame scenarios. B+
Teeth of the Makwa - Only stingers deliver 3 attacks of 3 at range for a cheaper cost. B+
The Varja - A unique figure that can change the dynamic of games by its presence. Combos well with Deathreavers. Fairly matchup dependent but rarely bad. A-
Tomb Skeleton Archers - Same price, same attack/defense, and same potential 4 attacks at range 7 as Blastatrons. Their figure movement and attack boosts are less impressive, though. Skeletal form cements them as an anti-range ranged squad. B-
Urk - Worse than more cutters or brutes whenever that’s an option. A good option when figure limits force you to fill in. B-
Viceron the Blood Knight - Bloodstorm is most useful early, and Viceron will struggle as a leadoff figure. But just the statline and healing makes for an intimidating cleanup figure. B-
Xualtiaca Fire Ants - Require large numbers to be effective, but swarm sting can be great in Heat of Battle or against numerous or high defense foes. B
Zettian Deathwings - Their ability to dart in and out and ping opponents is nice, but in order to hit hard they have to destroy themselves. B-

Also, some drops to existing rankings.

Marro Gnids -> C+
Water Elemental -> B
Shurrak -> B

Boosts to existing rankings
Haduc -> A-

Last edited by dok; August 29th, 2018 at 01:48 PM.
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  #412  
Old October 31st, 2017, 01:54 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings


Well met!

Some thoughts:






Elaria the Pale (B+) is one of my favorite units. Jarek Guy and Cormin the Dark both benefit from Queen of Thieves. Jarek is solid second tier, and I agree with al the others' assessments. Cormin and Elaria, are Rogues Heroes, bonding with the brand new Nottingham Brigands, and Stab in the Back is neutralized. I recently played Elaria, Cormin, and Darrak Ambershard (B+) (another Rogue Hero) on a Dungeon/Shadow map. Cormin's Elaria-boosted Facade allowed him to exchange places with Darrak, whose Hide in Shadows made him nigh impossible to hit. The Brigands make all the Rogues stronger. Jarek, Cormin, Brigands, all at least a B.

I played Ashi-Dhulu at Islandscape, and found him to be pretty fragile, as he attracted too much attention once he surfaced among the enemy. B.

Pel is a nice cheap thug. B+.

Bramcephys is a nice expensive thug. B+.

The Tomb Skeleton Archers are disappointingly weak. C-.

Brute Gruts' Berserker Frenzy generally not worth it. B.

Hrognak is to the Heavy Gruts what Me-Burq-Sa is to the Romans, only better. A-.

Prince al'Kahora is very cool, especially boosted by a Spirit. B.

Heracles belongs in C3G. A-.

I own Executioner 616, and look forward to really annoying my opponents with him, my Deathcommander and a bunch of Deathreavers. No more than a B, though.

chas likes the Sentinals of Grax, but they've always disappointed him. B.

Viceron the Blood Knight looks very cool, very solid, better than a B-. Viceron Bomb anyone?

I've fielded the Varja a few times, and found him to be very useful. He's high variance with Living Storm and his 3 Defense make him vulnerable to melee. Great for OM 1, not so much after. Lower than an A-.

Kon-Tar-Na - very cool, super solid and brutal. At least an A-.

Kudos to the designers, playtesters, editors, etc. Lots of very cool units here, and in the previous Waves. You guys just get better as you go along. Great job!





Next Generation


Last edited by kolakoski; October 31st, 2017 at 02:15 PM.
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  #413  
Old October 31st, 2017, 02:57 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I agree w/ the lack of of A figures in the last few releases. And it's hard to have a real opinion on whether a B figure should be B or B+. So I don't have a ton to say.

I don't think Varja should be A- but I guess that's just theoryscape on my part.

I do think Kon-Tar-Na could end up being A-; he prompts some different Nagrub builds than TKN (no Raelin, more points for other support). But we need time and games for an accurate assessment here I think.

Rygarn is underrated at A-, should be an A. He changes games in the same way that the A+ figures do, but the strongest builds using Rygarn are not as good as the strongest builds using the other A+s.

I have no idea why Major J15 is an A-. He's an okay figure. He's good with Hoplitrons but I thought the whole point of rankings was how much figures contribute to their strongest builds and Hoplitron armies are not good.

Haduc is ridiculously strong and I think that a well-played and well-built elf army (no Emiroon, Raelin) could easily be top tier with him. For 500 points Ulginesh, Jorhdawn, Arkmer, Haduc, Kyntela, Raelin is really good. I think he should be A-; that build can beat A- armies.
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  #414  
Old October 31st, 2017, 03:13 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I don't think Varja is A- either.

Have you tried Hexscape? 3D Heroscape Multiplayer Battle program!

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  #415  
Old October 31st, 2017, 03:16 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

26 of the 32 units reviewed were in the B's. Looks like C3V/SOV are on point to maintain the power curve!


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  #416  
Old October 31st, 2017, 03:17 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

I'm considering a mild bump to Cormin (C+ or maaaybe B-) out of respect for rats + brigands builds, which does use his power set reasonably well (and as kola says, Elaria does prevent SitB).

I could be talked into dropping Varja to B+.

I'd be surprised to see KTN reach A-.

I'm skeptical that Rygarn carries his weight in any A-tier builds. He's very good but the best builds are usually pretty OM efficient already. I'll keep an eye on it, though. He's on that border for sure.

I see the argument for J15 as only B+, but he's awfully good even as a standalone and Hops armies have a number of very good matchups. But to flip the Rygarn statement above, he's definitely on the bottom border of that tier.

I'm more or less with vegie on Haduc.
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  #417  
Old October 31st, 2017, 03:21 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
26 of the 32 units reviewed were in the B's. Looks like C3V/SOV are on point to maintain the power curve!
What ever happened to C being average....

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  #418  
Old October 31st, 2017, 03:35 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kinseth View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by wriggz View Post
26 of the 32 units reviewed were in the B's. Looks like C3V/SOV are on point to maintain the power curve!
What ever happened to C being average....
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  #419  
Old October 31st, 2017, 04:44 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

There's no D+ or D- in the rankings, ergo, the median should be in the B range.
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  #420  
Old October 31st, 2017, 04:48 PM
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
There's no D+ or D- in the rankings, ergo, the median should be in the B range.
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