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  #1  
Old March 17th, 2010, 09:12 PM
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Improved heat of battle rules

Before ever playing by the currently established heat of battle rules I used a similar set of rules and even hosted an event using those rules. I've even talked to others that have used the same rules. Since then I've been to several events that use the heat of battle rules that are currently established. There is no doubt in my mind that the current established rules are broken. I think anyone that does not think the same is dishonest with themselves about it. Especially with the fire elementals coming out I think that it's time to refine the HOB rules so they won't be so broken.

Here are the rules as I've written them, but I will change this post as needed if someone points out a flaw that needs fixing. Differences from the established heat of battle rules are underlined

1. roll a d20, the higher number chooses who places first.
2. first person to place picks a card and places every figure on that card on the map.
2a. Squad figures must be placed adjacent to the rest of the squad.
2b. No figure may be placed adjacent to an enemy figures or on glyphs.
3. players alternate placing until one player has place all of his figures.
4. the remaining player places the rest of his figures on the map.
5. Place order markers and roll iniative as normal for the first round

armies must still meet a requirement for maximum number of figures, cards, and/or hexes

Every single person I know that has played both with the current heat of battle rules and my rules agree that mine are better. In fact this way of playing has become a favorite with some of the people I play with. It's nice because it works with nearly any map you could come up with and balances out the power of the units. I challenge anyone who does not agree to try it this way and see for themselves that this is a much better way to play heat of battle games. I'd like to gather enough support for this that this format will become the new standard format. Anyone that doesn't think that the standard heat of battle rules are broken? Well I won't try too hard to convince you that it is, but I think that if you test both ways out enough you will still see that this way is better than the other way.



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Last edited by lafleurhero; March 18th, 2010 at 01:18 AM.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:24 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

Some of the current issues that are resolved by these rules:

1. pre-engagment strike question. Since you can't be placed next to any enemy figure there is no need to debate over if engagment strike takes place before the game starts, you can just play the way it is written on the card.
2. Marrden Hounds/Fire elementals. Since they do not start adjacent to enemy figures this removes the huge advantage they have in heat of battle games. They still will be good for heat of battle but not a game breaker.
3. Commonsquadscape. Since commons squads must start adjacent to another squad member it negates some of the huge advantages of many common squad figures. My way allows heroes a much better chance.
4. Melee advantage. Of course part of the point of HOB is to see more melee in the game, however it shouldn't become all about melee. Since they don't start adjacent to enemies, ranged figures still have a chance. Melee still get a nice boost this way but it's more balanced.
4. Huge portions of unused map. Once again, since figures cannot be placed adjacent to an enemy it forces figures to be placed in some less desired locations, increasing the amount of map used.
5. Nobody moves anywhere. In standard heat of battle rules everyone is engaged and can't move, since nobody is engaged at the start of these rules there will still be some moving around. Not nearly as much as in normal games but at least movement becomes looked at again instead of being a meaningless stat.
6. Mathias trash talking. Actually it won't change anything there, he's still gonna talk trash. Just now he has to work a bit harder to kill those ranged figures.

Alright, I open this to discussion and debate. I challenge anyone to show me that the current system is even equal to or better than mine.



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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:24 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

Hmmmm depending on the map this could be fun.

For people like me who always a have a map ready to go (and sometimes that Map is way to big) this would be great to get in a quick HS fix

So can you place your own figures adjacent to each other?

And with glyphs in play it might give one person too much advantage but speed up the battle at the same time.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:30 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

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Originally Posted by Skeletor View Post
Hmmmm depending on the map this could be fun.

For people like me who always a have a map ready to go (and sometimes that Map is way to big) this would be great to get in a quick HS fix

So can you place your own figures adjacent to each other?

And with glyphs in play it might give one person too much advantage but speed up the battle at the same time.

Yes, of course you may still place adjacent to your own figures. You may not start on a glyph but you could theoriticly surround the glyph. Perhaps the rules could be changed a bit so you can not start adjacent to a glyph either. That is a problem I had not thought of but that is already a bigger problem by the normal heat of battle rules. My rules do help a bit in that area. Is this enough of an issue though to make further ruling on? Thoughts people? The goal here is to iron out these rules to the best way possible



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Old March 17th, 2010, 09:48 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

I dont see how this is better...different maybe but not necessarily better. This isnt exactly Heat of Battle...its more like Room Temperature of Battle.

Your format for placement requires the board to be at least a particular size to accommodate the placing in "non engagement" situations..therefore you are affecting someones ability to play the army they have chosen in a tournament situation if they cannot place all of their figures on the board.


What you are also doing is allowing someone to make pockets for their ranged units (i.e. KMA) to hide in. Under your rules I would find a nice 7 hex space and first put in a squad of Rats..and then another forming a circle. Drop the KMA in the middle and let them shoot away for a few rounds.

Last edited by Onacara; March 17th, 2010 at 10:03 PM.
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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:19 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
2a. Squad figures must be placed adjacent to the rest of the squad.
2b. No figure may be placed adjacent to an enemy figures or on glyphs.
Ummm, I thought the whole point of HoB is to strategically spread out your forces and engage your opponent. I guess the value of range would rise in this version of HoB, but that's already good in a standard format; why not leave HoB the way it is to give melee a chance to dominate?

I like the way Onacara put it-this becomes Room Temperature of Battle.

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Old March 17th, 2010, 10:25 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

The rules for Heat of Battle GenCon will change this year but it will not be all the changes here, but it will have some of them.

Nice effort here, Laufhero, though it is odd that you take such a confrontational "I challenge anyone" tone. It is almost like you consider HoB to be some sort of official way to play Heroscape. It isn't; it is just another way to play Heroscape that a poster here came up with and we used it. Just like what you are outlining here is a different way of playing Heroscape.

Why does it have to be one or the other? And why the challenge/confrontational tone?

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Last edited by R˙chean; March 18th, 2010 at 12:40 PM.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 01:28 AM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by Onacara View Post
I dont see how this is better...different maybe but not necessarily better. This isnt exactly Heat of Battle...its more like Room Temperature of Battle.

Your format for placement requires the board to be at least a particular size to accommodate the placing in "non engagement" situations..therefore you are affecting someones ability to play the army they have chosen in a tournament situation if they cannot place all of their figures on the board.


What you are also doing is allowing someone to make pockets for their ranged units (i.e. KMA) to hide in. Under your rules I would find a nice 7 hex space and first put in a squad of Rats..and then another forming a circle. Drop the KMA in the middle and let them shoot away for a few rounds.
First, I've not yet seen a map so small that all the figures could not be placed, but your right that it could happen. That is why there is a requirment for amount of figures. Typicly if it will fit in 24 hexes it will work. That is sort of a weak point but also a strong point as mentioned in point #4 above. It forces more of the map to be used.

Second, the situation you described of setting up a melee screen for your ranged is part of the point. In any normal battle clear to the end of the game your melee is normally used to protect your ranged attackers. This in effect makes it more of a real heat of battle than the other rules. What you state as a negative point is what I would consider a positive point.

I do apreciate the critque and expected it, but still before saying it's a bad idea or doesn't help anything, try it for yourself. I don't think you will honestly feel the same way after actually trying it. If you honestly try it with another player and can honestly say you like the current rules better then fine. You will be the first I have heard. I'm sure there will be others. everyone has different opinions. Heck there are some people who don't even like heroscape at all! I can't understand it but they do exist.



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Old March 18th, 2010, 01:55 AM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

I've always played with the can't start adjacent to an enemy figure rule.

Never played it where all squad figures have to be adjacent.

I actually thought that the heat of battle rules were that you couldn't start adjacent at first just because that's the way I've always done it.

On running out of spaces to place figures, I've always enjoyed that when it's occured. Looking for that one final open spot. If there's not a space open that isn't adjacent to an opponent then your opponent could place them or the rule could just be place them in a space non-adjacent to an opponents figure if possible.

I'll have to try starting out engaged sometime, though I think I'll like the way I do it now better who knows. I might be turned from lafleurhero's view to the other! Maybe there should be another thread Improved Room Temperature of Battle Rules: Now you can start engaged! for people llke us.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 12:40 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

The original flavor behind Heat of Battle as specified in UPC's variant was that the fog lifted and you realized your forces were closer to the enemy than you had anticipated. Your changes still support that flavor.

From the rules list you posted: For item 1, the player winning the d20 roll already had that choice, so that isn't a change. It might be a change from what UPC originally had in his variant but it isn't a change from the way HoB GenCon 2009 was run. The only change to Heat of Battle for GenCon 2010 is consistent with your bullet point 2b.

This change was imminent, not just because of FEs, but because the builds were getting pretty stale. 7xWOA or whatevers make for some BORING and long game play. The event needed a shake up.

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Last edited by R˙chean; March 18th, 2010 at 12:54 PM. Reason: The change was going to happen even with out this proposal.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 12:45 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

Quote:
Originally Posted by lafleurhero View Post
I do apreciate the critque and expected it, but still before saying it's a bad idea or doesn't help anything, try it for yourself.
I don't recall saying it was a bad idea...I said "I don't see how it is better"

You proclaimed this variant to be IMPROVED from the original variant and I quite frankly don't see it.

Different? Yes

Fun? Possibly

Improved? Not really.
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Old March 18th, 2010, 12:57 PM
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Re: Improved heat of battle rules

It's interesting but yeah the challenging tone isn't so great.

It does seem like quite a few more units would be viable under this variant, which is a good thing in my opinion. This is just a guess on my part, not having played this version.

What I have used, and prefer to standard HoB, is the placing equivalent of Xotli's drafting rule, the "low point rule". The person that places next is the one who currently has the least points on the board. It reduces some (not all) of the incentive to simply have the most cards, which I don't particularly care for.

edit: on seeing R˙chean's edit, cool, good move to try to stop the boring Ashra x7 etc.

Last edited by Grim; March 18th, 2010 at 01:02 PM. Reason: crossposted with R˙chean's edit
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