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Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.

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  #1  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 04:24 AM
Bahde Bahde is offline
 
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Multiple Rats?

Im tinkering with ideas for general purpose 500pt armies and Im curious what the consensus is on the Rats....

The army I am thinking is either: EI x2, Q9 & DR

Or: EI, Q9, KMA & DR x2

Would I not get enough impact from their scatter/engage with only one squad as opposed to two or could I sacrifice numbers in rats for the hitting power of a second squad of EI? I dont see anything as worthwhile to replace the DR with here but would it be better to pick up another four of them and make the second EI into a KMA instead? (Give up x3 attacks in exchange for range & defense?)
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 04:40 AM
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Whatever you do, I would not field Einar Imperium x1. It might not be the worst 140 points in the game, but it's sure not good. No common squad really reaches full power with one copy, but the rats come as close as any.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 08:06 AM
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I agree with rdhight about avoiding a single squad of EI. I'd also avoid two squads of them, and go with something like: 2 x Microcorps, Q9, 3 x DR. (or, maybe, one Microcorps and keep the KMA).
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  #4  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 09:28 AM
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My rule of thumb with the rats is no more than 2 squads. In a lot of games you can get away with not even using them, but if you have to use them they can wing the game for you. 3 squads is a little ridiculous and you'll make no friends at a tournament running that many annoying rats.
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Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:25 AM
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Rats x 12 and Isamu.

At what point do we draw the line at worrying about annoying your opponent? I agree with the rules lawyering stuff, and to an extent the recent conversations about Stinger Denial and the revolving door, but if it makes sense to put 3 squads of Rats in your army, why wouldn't you? Other than running short on starting zone spaces, I'm not sure my opponent's feelings on rats should be taken into consideration.

Hope that didn't come across jerk-ish. Personally I haven't come up with a use for 3 sets of rats in a 500pt army, so I agree it is over kill.

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  #6  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys
Rats x 12 and Isamu.

At what point do we draw the line at worrying about annoying your opponent? I agree with the rules lawyering stuff, and to an extent the recent conversations about Stinger Denial and the revolving door, but if it makes sense to put 3 squads of Rats in your army, why wouldn't you? Other than running short on starting zone spaces, I'm not sure my opponent's feelings on rats should be taken into consideration.

Hope that didn't come across jerk-ish. Personally I haven't come up with a use for 3 sets of rats in a 500pt army, so I agree it is over kill.
DED and 11xrats is better

Gamjuven, I see how Stinger Denial and the castle door can be bad, but there is no reason that taking a bunch of rats is bad.

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  #7  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:33 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by gamjuven
My rule of thumb with the rats is no more than 2 squads. In a lot of games you can get away with not even using them, but if you have to use them they can wing the game for you. 3 squads is a little ridiculous and you'll make no friends at a tournament running that many annoying rats.
No wonder I don't have any friends

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  #8  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 10:44 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by nyys
Rats x 12 and Isamu.

At what point do we draw the line at worrying about annoying your opponent? I agree with the rules lawyering stuff, and to an extent the recent conversations about Stinger Denial and the revolving door, but if it makes sense to put 3 squads of Rats in your army, why wouldn't you? Other than running short on starting zone spaces, I'm not sure my opponent's feelings on rats should be taken into consideration.

Hope that didn't come across jerk-ish. Personally I haven't come up with a use for 3 sets of rats in a 500pt army, so I agree it is over kill.
I agree... Friendly games are one thing... but tournaments are for winning. If you need 4 squads of rats in your army, and you think it'll give you an advantage...then bring em on!



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  #9  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 11:11 AM
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You can still be friendly and play three squads of deathreavers, or even six squads of 4th Mass... and as others have noted, you can have too much of a good thing. I'd never play 3 squads of rats unless I were using a lot of unique units to attack.

I really don't have much positive experience with the EI. If the ruins or trees are in central locations on the map(s), they can be pretty deadly. Marcus + the AE might be fun flimsy. Playing Q9 and deathreavers can make any unit seem playable.

But if there ever were a common that can still do something with 1 squad, I'd say it's the Deathreavers. 2 or 3 is a lot better, but they don't fit here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
(I've also played many matches with great, fun people who were using Q9. So using Q9 doesn't make you a tool. But being a tool sure seems to make you use Q9.)
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  #10  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 01:04 PM
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To answer your question with some tried and true experience, I took 2nd place at a recent tournament (Colombus, OH, 3/29) fielding x2 Rats, Q9, Airborne Elite, Isamu, and Marcu.

The rats did their job quite well as metal scurrying barbed wire for Q9's Queglix guns. I'd recommend two sets, 4 rats just don't seem to have enough staying power.
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  #11  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 01:40 PM
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My opinion of the rats is 2+ squads or none at all. I've played with them a lot and every time I try to get away with just one squad I end up being disappointed. The useful aspect of rats is that once you get them near where you want them then you can rely on scatter. But without the backup squad to scatter once the first couple rats die then they end up feeling like not only a waste of 40 points but also a wasted round where your opponent has better development on the field. That could have just been because they went up against the stingers on a map with plenty of road hexes.

On another game when I had two squads of rats I am happy to report that during the end game when it was five rats vs. Mimring and Marcu, my rats somehow managed to gnaw their way through that dragon and demon.

Otherwise, load up on rats and don't forget to go 'squeak, squeak, squeak' every time you move them!

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  #12  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 01:49 PM
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Bahde,

I like Rats and I like Q9 and I like the KMA and I even like TEI... but TEI most emphatically do not belong in an army with either Q9 or the KMA. Why? Given the choice at range of mebbe picking off one of the KMA or mebbe scoring a wound against Q9's 7 defense vs. almost certainly knocking off 43+ points of your army, I think you'll be losing a lot of Kyrie awfully early. Rats are good with TEI as interdictors, but you rather counterintuitively want low defense, high attack, low cost units to back them up - the Ashigaru Harqs come to mind. This makes the TEI a bit less of a target. Add a heavy hitter or two (Drake, perhaps? Raelin would also be typical here) so you don't overflow your starting zone and you're good to go. Perhaps:

TEIx1 140 (3 spaces)
Ratsx1 40 (4 spaces)
2xAshH 120 (8 spaces)
New Drake 170 (1 space)
Guilty 30 (1 space)

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