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  #1  
Old January 28th, 2008, 08:11 PM
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You drafted range and flyers, I drafted samurai... I forfeit

Okay, not literally. I'm just wondering about people's opinions on what seems to be the two biggest advantages in the game, range and flying. Unique samurai squads are just an example of slow, clunky figures (except Charging Assault) that can't handle high terrain. There are plenty of others as well.

Charos and Cyprien have no range, but they can handle most terrain with ease. Sonlen and Q9 can't fly, but they can pick you off before you can reach them.

Walking melee figures seem like such a gamble to me since you need hefty defense to make it close to anyone with range, or to withstand the height advantage you're going to give up to someone with flying or leaping. Can't hide from LOS if Sentinel hammers are being thrust from above. Can't get height on Q10 if ya can't reach him through all the Wrist Rockets and Machine Pistols.

I don't want to be afraid of picking Alastair, or Grimnak, or Gladiatrons, or Warriors of Ashra, or Einar....

We all like to build tall, fancy maps using as much of our hard earned terrain as possible, but this just makes it seem even more difficult to pick many many figures - namely figures without range or flying. Anyone have any advice on how to stand a chance without being forced to draft Saylind or Theracus (even they don't always help) with the melee bunches?
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  #2  
Old January 28th, 2008, 08:15 PM
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I constantly use Samurai armies; though I play 1000+ point battles.

So I pick Cyprien, too.... :P
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  #3  
Old January 28th, 2008, 09:00 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre
I constantly use Samurai armies; though I play 1000+ point battles.

So I pick Cyprien, too.... :P
Yeah, I tend to put vampires and samurai together a lot too. Not sure why. (For one thing, the 195 of Cyprien/Sonya and the 195 of TSA x3 even up nicely.)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shackle
We all like to build tall, fancy maps using as much of our hard earned terrain as possible, but this just makes it seem even more difficult to pick many many figures - namely figures without range or flying. Anyone have any advice on how to stand a chance without being forced to draft Saylind or Theracus (even they don't always help) with the melee bunches?
I think if you restrict your thinking to "I have melee, he has range, how do I win?" you're bound to always be at a disadvantage, even if you're a great player. Don't bring a knife to a gunfight.

It's more reasonable to think in terms of using a smaller range contingent to help a bigger melee group instead of the other way around. Arrow Gruts with Swogs and Krug are an example of a walking army that uses fewer points of range and more points of melee. Blasts/glads are the same way.

When you do take less range, try to make it something with a range of 7 or more. It does the enemy no good to have Stingers on top of the mountain if someone is plinking them from outside their range and they have to climb down to attack. Syvarris and Deadeye are also good at forcing enemies to run toward you instead of the other way around. When your howitzers are making the enemy shooters advance, that makes it easier to draw them into engagement with the WoA or whatever. When your melee must chase their range, you have a real problem. Use a small splash of even longer range to make their fliers/shooters move toward the bulk of your army: the melee killers. Thorgrim, samurai, Grimnak, etc. won't have so far to run that way.
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  #4  
Old January 28th, 2008, 09:21 PM
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Guns > Swords.

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  #5  
Old January 28th, 2008, 09:33 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer
Guns > Swords.
Thanks you for this insightful opinion.

But my opinion says that guns are cowardly, not to mention the fact that Cyprien has assassinated Syvarris and Iron Man in a single game with just swords and cold fingers.
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  #6  
Old January 28th, 2008, 09:35 PM
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For 110 points, the original Sgt. Drake's sword can wreck some havoc on guns.

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  #7  
Old January 29th, 2008, 01:58 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer
Guns > Swords.
Thanks you for this insightful opinion.

But my opinion says that guns are cowardly
So your opinion regards soldiers as cowardly? Police officers?

As for the original posters question... I tend to agree guns are superior to swords. Soldiers no longer charge the battlefield with melee weapons... it is far superior to shoot your enemy from safety rather then put yourself in danger from a melee weapon. Fight smart and win. Flight is also a superior mode of movement. Hopefully the cost of units with both of these levels the playing field...



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  #8  
Old January 29th, 2008, 08:14 AM
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Re: You drafted range and flyers, I drafted samurai... I for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shackle

We all like to build tall, fancy maps using as much of our hard earned terrain as possible, but this just makes it seem even more difficult to pick many many figures - namely figures without range or flying. Anyone have any advice on how to stand a chance without being forced to draft Saylind or Theracus (even they don't always help) with the melee bunches?
One solution to the quandary is to use the Battlefields of Valhalla maps. We have worked hard to identify maps that do not favor ranged and flying figures. The use of BoV maps (or studying them and then building your own on the same sort of principles) goes a long way toward making those melee units equally useful.

Find BoV maps here
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  #9  
Old January 29th, 2008, 09:24 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paradox22
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord Pyre
Quote:
Originally Posted by ParaGoomba Slayer
Guns > Swords.
Thanks you for this insightful opinion.

But my opinion says that guns are cowardly
So your opinion regards soldiers as cowardly? Police officers?
No, they use them because they have a need to. I respect them as much as anyone else.

But I have to say that SotM Drake and Cyprien are perfect sniper killers, if you go with melee units.
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  #10  
Old January 29th, 2008, 01:29 PM
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Re: You drafted range and flyers, I drafted samurai... I for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shackle

I don't want to be afraid of picking Alastair, or Grimnak, or Gladiatrons, or Warriors of Ashra, or Einar....

Just a quick vote of support for the WoA. In a recent game I was down to just a few defenders of the Hive. I sent the Warriors out to tie up the approaching attackers. They did their job very well and it allowed me to rebirth enough Stingers to help defend the hive. 50 points well spent.

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  #11  
Old January 29th, 2008, 01:38 PM
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Re: You drafted range and flyers, I drafted samurai... I for

Quote:
Originally Posted by zettian_guard
Quote:
Originally Posted by Soul Shackle

I don't want to be afraid of picking Alastair, or Grimnak, or Gladiatrons, or Warriors of Ashra, or Einar....

Just a quick vote of support for the WoA. In a recent game I was down to just a few defenders of the Hive. I sent the Warriors out to tie up the approaching attackers. They did their job very well and it allowed me to rebirth enough Stingers to help defend the hive. 50 points well spent.
I had a really powerful army (so I thought) with four squads of MacDirks reved up to six attacks each to out against just two squads of the Warriors of Ashra. None of the Scots' boys came home...the ladies laid the laddies down.
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  #12  
Old January 29th, 2008, 04:00 PM
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Re: You drafted range and flyers, I drafted samurai... I for

Quote:
Originally Posted by Revdyer
...the ladies laid the laddies down.
Say that ten times fast.

Edit to add: I've always felt the WoA are a bit under-appreciated, and could be very strong in the right metagame.
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