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  #241  
Old June 15th, 2010, 01:52 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

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Originally Posted by lazites View Post
The bases shouldn't matter to anyone. It's still heroscape! And Like Brewster, I got friends that are into D&D aswell, and such moves are increasing there interest in heroscape!

WOTC is not run by idiots! :P
I completely agree with this.It just doesn't matter,and I believe it was a good business move.
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  #242  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:06 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

What bothers me about the bases is that I think they do relate to gameplay. A while ago I suggested just getting the DDM versions of the figures and printing the cards out. Grungebob said this wouldn't fly because the bases are different sizes and it would affect gameplay. The specific reason cited was centering on the hexes.

So I expect some kind of ruling about how to handle the new bases when placing figures on the hexes.

The second (lesser) thing that bothers me is the redundancy. They've already marketed these figures with different bases. If they did it with new sculpts it would be different but these figures have been avaliable to RPG players for years. Another scaper summed it up well in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrkridia Giant View Post
2) The change of the bases. Yeah, Iíve tried to use HS units in other games, and usually they just donít fit on the board. But, why make this change now? If they really wanted to sell a more universally useful mini to the DnD crowd, why didnít they start at MS3? Itís frustrating that wave 12 is going to look slightly different. If it is about saving money and plastic (which I actually DOUBT is the main issue), then couldnít they just raise the price a little? Inflation HAS been occurring for the last 6 years, after all. It wonít stop me from purchasing, but Iím not happy about it, and I donít think it was the smartest move. Iíll reserve final judgement until I have the pieces actually on my table.
Great points, Myrkridia Giant. I think wave 12/D2 looks fantastic and I have no doubt as cards are revealed they will prove to be well designed and fit perfectly into the existing Heroscape universe. The new bases won't stop me from purchasing this wave either, but it does bother me and leaves me feeling like Heroscape is little more than a gateway to bigger things in WOTC's eyes.

All of these figures are already available on smaller bases, so why change the base for the Heroscape release when it has no benefit to Heroscape?

I can appreciate the need to sell more product and make a good business decision, but I guess I don't understand why people who don't play Heroscape will suddenly be interested in these figures if they weren't already interested in them the first time they were released.
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  #243  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:19 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

But they aren't available as readily. The heroscape versions are cheaper than most of the minis individually. Some of these D&D minis now have different paint jobs and even translucent plastic.

I agree that the benefit to these other games is slight, but there IS a benefit to Heroscape. These players of other games are much more likely to get into Heroscape by buying THESE figures than the D&D mini versions. After reading that post, I'm actually more convinced that the benefits of the switch, for Heroscape, outweigh the costs.


(See, this is what is great about the internet. You can spend a lot of time debating people with different ideas and walk away even more firmly convinced you were right! )


(That's only partially true. My OCD was only allowing me to just grudgingly accepting the change before.)
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  #244  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:26 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

Quote:
Originally Posted by fomox View Post
But they aren't available as readily. The heroscape versions are cheaper than most of the minis individually. Some of these D&D minis now have different paint jobs and even translucent plastic.

I agree that the benefit to these other games is slight, but there IS a benefit to Heroscape. These players of other games are much more likely to get into Heroscape by buying THESE figures than the D&D mini versions. After reading that post, I'm actually more convinced that the benefits of the switch, for Heroscape, outweigh the costs.

All the wave D2 minis are readily available. I bought most of them last night. There are 2 that are really expensive. None of the small base stuff looks radically different, as D1 did.

I'm sure they will sell some more packs based on the change in base size but its at risk of alienating an existing fanbase, lots of whom still have a bad taste in their mouths over the recycled minis. Not a bad idea, but terrible execution and timing. And they really should have been the first to tell us. This is the second time they've gotten scooped on something controversial (Wave 10.)
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  #245  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:39 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

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Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
I'm sure they will sell some more packs based on the change in base size but its at risk of alienating an existing fanbase, lots of whom still have a bad taste in their mouths over the recycled minis. Not a bad idea, but terrible execution and timing. And they really should have been the first to tell us. This is the second time they've gotten scooped on something controversial (Wave 10.)
I do agree there are costs to the switch, and the alienation of some existing fans seems to be the most important one. And you make a good point about timing (just after the switch to D&D and reused minis), and probably about the information release, though I can see why they'd want to do it at the same time as the previews. (An argument for earlier previews, perhaps.)
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  #246  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:46 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
What bothers me about the bases is that I think they do relate to gameplay. A while ago I suggested just getting the DDM versions of the figures and printing the cards out. Grungebob said this wouldn't fly because the bases are different sizes and it would affect gameplay. The specific reason cited was centering on the hexes.

So I expect some kind of ruling about how to handle the new bases when placing figures on the hexes.

The second (lesser) thing that bothers me is the redundancy. They've already marketed these figures with different bases. If they did it with new sculpts it would be different but these figures have been avaliable to RPG players for years. Another scaper summed it up well in another thread:
Quote:
Originally Posted by rudyvalentine View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Myrkridia Giant View Post
2) The change of the bases. Yeah, Iíve tried to use HS units in other games, and usually they just donít fit on the board. But, why make this change now? If they really wanted to sell a more universally useful mini to the DnD crowd, why didnít they start at MS3? Itís frustrating that wave 12 is going to look slightly different. If it is about saving money and plastic (which I actually DOUBT is the main issue), then couldnít they just raise the price a little? Inflation HAS been occurring for the last 6 years, after all. It wonít stop me from purchasing, but Iím not happy about it, and I donít think it was the smartest move. Iíll reserve final judgement until I have the pieces actually on my table.
Great points, Myrkridia Giant. I think wave 12/D2 looks fantastic and I have no doubt as cards are revealed they will prove to be well designed and fit perfectly into the existing Heroscape universe. The new bases won't stop me from purchasing this wave either, but it does bother me and leaves me feeling like Heroscape is little more than a gateway to bigger things in WOTC's eyes.

All of these figures are already available on smaller bases, so why change the base for the Heroscape release when it has no benefit to Heroscape?

I can appreciate the need to sell more product and make a good business decision, but I guess I don't understand why people who don't play Heroscape will suddenly be interested in these figures if they weren't already interested in them the first time they were released.

I would've expected them to announce this during Guru's front page post if they were to make changes.


I thought DnD was blind purchase though? Am I wrong?

Heroscape is a gateway into a wonderful world of games that I never would've known existed otherwise.
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  #247  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:49 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

DnD Minis is blind (single visible for some) but there are many many many many sites that sell singles.
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  #248  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:49 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

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Originally Posted by Greyelephant View Post
I thought DnD was blind purchase though? Am I wrong?
Some is, some isn't, I think. I was mostly discussing the figures that are on the secondary market now. Othkurik was close to $20 before MS3 came out.
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  #249  
Old June 15th, 2010, 02:53 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

Over at ddmspoilers.com there are a few people that seem happy with this change. These people and several of my friends (whom I play DnD with) are going to be buying multiple packs because now they don't have to rebase the miniatures. I am going to buy at least my standard 4X of each pack, probably a couple extra of the warforged. I personally like the change and wish they would have started it with MS3. Hopefully it extends the life of heroscape for at least a few extra years.

As far as the online secondary market for purchasing DDM, some people won't shop online and seeing figures in a store is the only way they will make the purchase.

Last edited by Dragoloth; June 15th, 2010 at 02:57 PM. Reason: Added a thought
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  #250  
Old June 15th, 2010, 05:38 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

You guys are overthinking this. I believe MS3 and, to a lesser degree D1, were something of an experiment for WotC. What do we know for sure? After Wave 9 came out, there was a gap in the product line because, for one reason or another (financial has been implied), no new sculpts were being authorized. That meant no new figures unless a solution was found. The use of sculpts from the D&D line was a possible solution, but would the resulting product be profitable? Looks like we know the answer now, but it certainly doesn't seem like it was a given when the decisions were made.

So if you're going to introduce changes to a line that might expand its customer base, when do you do that? Do you do it when you aren't sure of its long term viability, or do you do it when you think your investment is going to reap some dividends? This isn't a free change. The molds for the bases have to be changed and the stickers altered - that costs money. If it were me, I would wait to see if people were going to buy D&D scape before I made any more investment into the product. And that's the part that some of you aren't getting - this move is an investment for the company. They're putting money into making the line more profitable. It's not about taking away its identity or converting everyone to D&D minis - that's stuff you do when you buy out a competitor, not something you do to your own product. This is a way to increase the value proposition for new consumers in a way that, at the end of the day, really has very little practical impact on existing customers. You might not like it, but at least try to understand it. Some of the opinions being voiced here are obviously coming from folks who have no idea about economics and the way that corporations go about making decisions.
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  #251  
Old June 15th, 2010, 06:25 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

Wookie: It seems the idea to change the bases came about between D1 and D2. Its not part of a long term strategy (which may be part of the problem.)

And even though its not a takeover by a competitor, its not their own product either. Its somewhere in between, but its not their bread and butter and it doesnt seem like they take the original concept for the game seriously, or even care about it. Where are our reprints? Its been more than six months since wave 5/10.
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  #252  
Old June 15th, 2010, 06:48 PM
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Re: D2 - changes in the base size

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Originally Posted by Hogg View Post
Wookie: It seems the idea to change the bases came about between D1 and D2. Its not part of a long term strategy (which may be part of the problem.)

And even though its not a takeover by a competitor, its not their own product either. Its somewhere in between, but its not their bread and butter and it doesnt seem like they take the original concept for the game seriously, or even care about it. Where are our reprints? Its been more than six months since wave 5/10.
You miss my point. Some are asking why this wasn't done earlier. I'm saying that there was no long term strategy, because WotC wasn't certain that they were dealing with a viable long term product.

Again, you're not thinking about the bigger picture here. What's happened since WotC took over the brand? Almost all of the big box stores dropped the line. That's huge from a revenue standpoint. On top of that, the price of oil has shot up, the price of foreign labor is increasing, and we hit a global recession. In the middle of all of that, this particular line wasn't cut. Instead, they made some moves to maintain the line and allow it to survive even though it wasn't a core brand. I think they deserve a bit more credit than you're giving them. If they wanted to drop the line, there have been ample opportunities and no doubt compelling reasons to do so.

What would you have done, if this was your job and your annual review was based on how you handled this situation, knowing the product was not financially viable in terms of new sculpts? Would you have done better?
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