Transcendental Argument for the Existence of God

[Agent Minivann]

A triangle with the sum of angles greater than 180 is easy. No need for omni anything. One point is at the poles, go in a straight line to the equator, take a 90 degree turn, repeat that same distance along the equator, take another 90 degree turn back to the origin. 270 degrees, all right angles. Alternately you also outlined another triangle simultaneously with all three angles being 270 degree, but that one is a little harder to visualize.

[Dad_Scaper]

I knew someone would nibble at the non-Euclidean possibilities there, but I also suspected it wouldn't be JS or Aldin. Now I know who the troublemaker is!

[Tornado]

If you (anyone who cares to answer) were all powerful and could do anything, what would you do?

After that what do you do?

What do you do to fill eternity or would you make it so time does not apply to you in that way?

On a different tangent, suppose God has and continues to make universes/dimensions, which plays into the multi-dimensions theory, perhaps God is exploring these alternate universes currently and that is why he has been relatively silent since biblical times.

[Agent Minivann]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

I knew someone would nibble at the non-Euclidean possibilities there, but I also suspected it wouldn't be JS or Aldin. Now I know who the troublemaker is!

Well, I usually try to stay low key (admittedly horrible pun intended, sorry).

[Shades fan]

This is a question and debate with no answer so I will enjoy having this discussion.
Morality wise-
If no god exists then humans are therefore a product of upbringing and Environment...therefore a computer could be programmed with the exact same factors and scientists could predict a person behavior to an exact measurement and determination.Which it cannot so a higher plane of existence or being must exist IMO.

Humans are in fact the only creature on the planet that struggle with existentialism and need a purpose.

I for one am Pantheistic in that I believe in an all encompassing god that is you, me , and everyone\everything. In a sense a more native American belief that God is all around us and makes up the universe. I feel no man or being could possibly understand god and the fact of acting on behalf or humanizing a god is pure psychosis. It is more likely an attempt at manipulation (as humans are clearly almost predestined at that.)
None of us have ever met the scribe's for any book on religion but can understand a clear motivation behind why someone would want us to believe them over another religion.(Take Christianity and Paganism for example)
As far as morals go, it's hard to say, I can understand why people believe in a place where bad people go to justify and self-pleasure in the fact they are acting as they deem good but as far as I can tell Sociopathic\psychopathic individuals believe they are doing the right thing most of the time aswell.

It more or less speaks of the sense of narcissism humans have for themselves. If this wasn't true what is the overall point of Possession's, social media, braggadocios behavior us as a species tend to have? Why buy a bigger house, why drive a nicer car?
I love people who are spiritual, ones that let religion dictate life and put down others as being lesser people...not so much.

Something interesting to ponder....

Dragons.The myth of dragons developed in many countries around the world that weren't able to communicate with each other.
It begs the question of why?
Well if you believe in evolution and that we were once monkey's, the three major predators\dangers for a monkey are Birds of Prey, Large Cats, and Snakes. If you combine those together that makes a Dragon. An interesting fact is Human and Primate eyes are specially designed to see snakes that would be hidden to other animals so we can sense the danger.

This might be the reason why Ophidiophobia( the fear of snakes) is one of the most widespread fears among humans.
Which is what truly interests me...are memories\behaviors able to pass from one life form to another over many generations despite being written down or spoken as part of a genetic imprint that is created over time not an instant miracle of life.

I will not go into the discussion of if evolution is real because it becomes a giant circle jerk of proving\ disproving many religions...but am just posing the question.


~Casey

[wriggz]

Could a God create both an immovable object and an unstoppable force? What happens when they meet?

The problem with analyzing the Qualities of Gods is that they would exist outside the rules that govern our universe. This goes back to breaking the rules of triangle with more than 180 Degrees, by moving to a non-Euclidian geometry. The same thing with my contradiction above. The answer is Yes, an all powerful god could create both, and that the object would not move and the force would not stop, even if they collided.

This also highlights the difference between Religious faith and Scientific "Faith". Religious faith exists beyond the realm of observation and by definition cannot be disproven. There is no way to prove if someone was touched by God, or if they are suffering from mental illness (this is not an insult there are lots of examples of people doing terrible things in God's name, and I doubt they were possessed by the holy spirit). This type of faith can be a wonderful thing when people do good works in God's name and those works are best "argument" for believing in a God.

Scientific "faith" as religious people like to call it is far more shaky. It is based on trusting that a devil is not dropping fossils around and that our observations of the world are accurate. Yes I have to trust that the speed of light is what others have told me, since I never tested it myself, but there is enough consensus and repeatable experiments, I think it would be foolish to not believe that light travels at a constant speed. You could say the theory of gravity (newton) requires faith, but that seems to diminish the word. This is all very Descartes after all. The point is where Religious faith stands is by definition impossible to contradict, a single (repeatable) counter example will wipe away Scientific belief.

I think people do a disservice to both Trusting in the Scientific work done by others and the process of Scientific inquiry (what people call Scientific Faith), and Religious Faith by equating them. One is possibly a wondrous connection to the Divine, the other is rigorous process of inquiry. They really are not the same at all.


I also don't see any direct contradiction in holding both Religious Faith and believing in Scientific Inquiry - Unless you are unwilling to replace "God Did it" with the Scientific explanation when it is discovered.

[The_X_Marker]

The easiest way to look at it is this: There either is or isn't a supreme deity. If there is, that brings about a whole host of problems. If there isn't that also brings about a whole host of problems. We have no way of knowing one way or the other, so believe what you want, or don't believe it if you can't.

Don't worry about your neighbor's lawn when yours is turning brown.

~X, an Atheist who works in a Catholic Cemetery

[Tornado]

How do you all feel about fate?

[Tornado]

No takers?

Here is my theory. Everyone's life/fate is like a huge Choose Your Own Adventure book.
Filled with endless possibilities but you could never do anything that is not in your book (like win a Superbowl) and each decision alters the paths and options ahead of you.

"If you can find your own book, you could read ahead." ~ musings of a young Tornado

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by The_X_Marker

The easiest way to look at it is this: There either is or isn't a supreme deity. If there is, that brings about a whole host of problems. If there isn't that also brings about a whole host of problems. We have no way of knowing one way or the other, so believe what you want, or don't believe it if you can't.

Don't worry about your neighbor's lawn when yours is turning brown.

~X, an Atheist who works in a Catholic Cemetery

Excellent post, of course, TXM. No matter what your faith (if any), your neighbor's lawn is his or her own business.

[The_X_Marker]

Originally Posted by Tornado

No takers?

Here is my theory. [/I]

Pretty much what I think, too. Certain things are governed by laws beyond our control, like gravity and other physics-natural laws. Something that goes up on our planet is fated to come down. Trying to throw mystical fate into our own lives is akin to seeking a deeper meaning for something that doesn't necessarily need one, in my humble opinion. I think part of it goes back to english class in grade school, where you're supposed to find meaning in the most mundane sentences.

[ollie]

The_X_Marker: a fine approach as long as people's beliefs have no effect on their actions, which is perhaps a flaw.

Tornado: humans like putting narratives to events and have found that useful. Fate can be a compelling story but suffers greatly from survivor bias (the stories that are most compelling are the ones we remember; the poor kid destined to grow up to be Heroscape champion of the world sticks longer in the memory than the millions of kids with similar starting conditions that don't reach that lofty status).