The Book of Bronze Tiger

[johnny139]

Dragon Style Kung Fu could fit on pretty much anyone that Richard Dragon has trained (as it's his style of choice), which is like half of the DC Universe at this point, so I think it's reusable in and of itself. Good call spinning out Counter Strike to keep it trim in that case.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Dragon Style Kung Fu could fit on pretty much anyone that Richard Dragon has trained (as it's his style of choice), which is like half of the DC Universe at this point, so I think it's reusable in and of itself. Good call spinning out Counter Strike to keep it trim in that case.

Ah, fair enough. What are some other characters who haven't been done yet that you see that power fitting on, though?

If we go with Dragon Style Kung Fu and Counter Strike, I personally prefer the double activation on Phantom Strike to help him with crowd control. Maybe up the D20 roll and give it a bonus against squads?

[Yodaking]

I took another look at the Trained to Perfection power as I have yet to print that card and use it. Not really feeling that for this card. He is more than worthy of MMA so if we are going to give him an auto-shield I'd just go back to that. I was trying to find a way to make him a great fighter without resorting to the auto skull and shield idea, which is how I came up with the reroll blanks idea. Combined with a d20 auto power on attack and counterstrike on defense, he should play like the top fighter he is.

I'm okay with dropping the d20 roll back down to 1 use if that is what everyone else wants. I was already thinking that would be the first thing to change if he starts coming in too strong, but was interested in seeing how it played in an actual game. Armies stick closer together will provide a target rich environment and he would get two rolls per turn, but armies that are less prone to sticking together could starve him out and limit him to one roll. Maybe that will make him difficult to price though so maybe just go with one roll but lower the number back down to 11+ (the power originally was based on Blade's 50/50 combat die roll, then changed to a d20 roll so Batman III & Rick Flag would play well with him)?

*edit* Bats idea to keep the two rolls but have different numbers for heroes vs. squads is interesting and might be easier to balance and price.

[Yodaking]

Originally Posted by johnny139

Dragon Style Kung Fu could fit on pretty much anyone that Richard Dragon has trained (as it's his style of choice), which is like half of the DC Universe at this point, so I think it's reusable in and of itself. Good call spinning out Counter Strike to keep it trim in that case.

Sounds like splitting them is the way to go then. Another change I'll make for sure tomorrow then.

[TrollBrute]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

If we go with Dragon Style Kung Fu and Counter Strike, I personally prefer the double activation on Phantom Strike to help him with crowd control. Maybe up the D20 roll and give it a bonus against squads?

Why does he need crowd control? Even at a single roll, that's still two figures he can take out each turn and when you pair him inside his synergies with Outlaws/Assassins, Suicide Squad, or even outside with Ms Marvel or Robot, and you're getting plenty of crowd control already. Plus, Counter Strike helps control squads due to their low attacks.

Also, just FYI, the breathing period for brainstorming is 48 hours, not 24. The only 24 period in C3G is the waiting period after an Initial is posted.

[Yodaking]

Thanks for the clarification TB. I'll wait till Friday to make changes.

I agree that counterstrike with 5 def. where you reroll blanks will help with crowd control. The cool thing about his Phantom Strike is he can move through someone but does not have to end his turn next to them to get the roll. So even if they spread out and try to use ranged attacks he can still get after two figures per turn. I think I'm leaning towards just one roll right now that effects everyone equally. Keeps it simpler and easier to balance and price.

[Yodaking]

So no official updates yet but with all the great feedback and discussion this is where I'm leaning with the design right now.

NAME = BRONZE TIGER
SECRET IDENTITY = BEN TURNER
SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = OUTLAW
PERSONALITY = CONFLICTED
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5
POINTS = 230?

PHANTOM STRIKE 11
Bronze Tiger can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. After moving and before attacking, you may choose one figure that Bronze Tiger moved through this turn and roll the twenty sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, the affected figure receives one unblockable wound.

DRAGON STYLE KUNG FU
When Bronze Tiger either attacks an opponent's adjacent figure with a normal attack or defends against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, reroll all blanks until all dice are either skulls or shields.

COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by TrollBrute

Why does he need crowd control? Even at a single roll, that's still two figures he can take out each turn and when you pair him inside his synergies with Outlaws/Assassins, Suicide Squad, or even outside with Ms Marvel or Robot, and you're getting plenty of crowd control already. Plus, Counter Strike helps control squads due to their low attacks.

Also, just FYI, the breathing period for brainstorming is 48 hours, not 24. The only 24 period in C3G is the waiting period after an Initial is posted.

It's not so much that he needs it, as it's thematic for him to have it and as a mid-level hero I see his best thematic role as a squad killer/mid-level hero counter. That said, if it's a more reliable single roll, he's likely taking out two squaddies per activation anyhow, and his counter strike can tag more, which is plenty of crowd control.

[johnny139]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Ah, fair enough. What are some other characters who haven't been done yet that you see that power fitting on, though?

Well, Richard Dragon himself, for one. DSKF + MMA + a "train martial artists" power would make for a cool design.* There's also an evil version of Richard Dragon in the New 52 who would probably want it. Both of the Questions (Vic Sage and Renee Montoya) trained under him, though I'm not sure if it'd feel appropriate for either.

So yeah not quite as reusable as I thought (since most of his students have been made already), but it has its niche. Even just as a shared power between Bronze Tiger and Richard Dragon would feel cool.

*Maybe a power that lets him grant Dragon Style Kung Fu to other Unique Heroes? That would be cool.

[IAmBatman]

Yeah, I'm cool with it being a touchstone for Richard Dragon. Iffy on whether we could let him grant that power without potential mechanical and balance issues, though!

As it is, DSKF and MMA together are pretty nasty. His base stats would have to be 3/3 or lower, I think.

[johnny139]

Oh yeah, it'd be brutal. I think that's appropriate for the guy who taught Batman and Lady Shiva, though.

A bit of a digression, though.

[Yodaking]

Things have quieted down since I posted my updated vision for the card. So lets see if the CRB have any issues.

@dok , @Dysole , @Soundwarp SG-1 , @weebaer any worries here?

Current Vision for the card:

NAME = BRONZE TIGER
SECRET IDENTITY = BEN TURNER
SPECIES = HUMAN
UNIQUENESS = UNIQUE HERO
CLASS = OUTLAW
PERSONALITY = CONFLICTED
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM 5

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 6
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 4
DEFENSE = 5
POINTS = 230?

PHANTOM STRIKE 11
Bronze Tiger can move through all figures and is never attacked when leaving an engagement. After moving and before attacking, you may choose one figure that Bronze Tiger moved through this turn and roll the twenty sided die. If you roll 11 or higher, the affected figure receives one unblockable wound.

DRAGON STYLE KUNG FU
When Bronze Tiger either attacks an opponent's adjacent figure with a normal attack or defends against a normal attack from an adjacent figure, reroll all blanks until all dice are either skulls or shields.

COUNTERSTRIKE
When rolling defense dice against a normal attack from an adjacent attacking figure, all excess shields count as unblockable hits on the attacking figure.