The Pre-SoV Workshop

[wriggz]

It always surprises me how we feel there is a rule that any species other than human need to be visually very similar. When you take a step back humans are incredibly diverse, not to mention other "classes" such as Dogs and spiders. I don't see why other creatures should be any different.

[BiggaBullfrog]

I also think it looks fine as an Icarian, for all the reasons expressed, and he could even be an early Nhah Scirh before they got more armor; it wouldn't be the first time we've seen timelines on other planets represented.

[Pumpkin_King]

What Wriggz said - with the wide range of colors that human people come in, we probably shouldn’t worry about “a different shade of blue.”

He works perfectly as an Icarian/Nhah Scrih.

[Kinseth]

Feels like Nhah Scrih to me

[ollie]

Yep, make it an Icarian but, IMO, not a Nhah Scrih. No lore-based objection, it's just a really bad name that should never have been used.

[superfrog]

Poor Chris Hahn.

[ollie]

He should have had a name with better letters.

[Sir Heroscape]

I've worked this guy to the point I feel he's pretty tight thematically and mechanically. He's playtested well, and is fun addition as a necromancer. The dynamic game decisions he creates are pretty interesting, and I like where he's at. Of course, there are always things as a designer I might miss or be unaware of so please give feedback as it's needed. The biggest thing I want to make sure I get right is his species. He's not undead, and there really doesn't seem to be a very good fit, so I went with the D&D species of Foulspawn which is what fits him nicely and kinda makes sense for him to be a Necromancer. Anyway, Curious to see what you think?



As a brief explanation of how he works:

Basically he souls sucks your figures gaining strength from them, and then he attacks with those souls, sending them out against his foes. Whenever he kills a figure, he is returning that soul back as if taking over the body of the defeated foe. But, he can only return souls with undead, which makes him dynamic and fun for cheap and expensive squads (DK's...Tomb skeletons, Thralls), but also allows him to suck up other Valkrill figures (and any other future figures released). so he's got some pretty broad synergies. Tomb skeletons are best for his "soul sucking and replacing", though I've found him with an army base of DC's and a few heroes to be pretty strong as well. Basically you eat an extra 55points into him, but you permanently beef him up and make him a mini Nilfeim to act as a midgame shark or strong late game cleaner. Granted, even with 5 defense that 4 life is pretty cushy, but his attack output is strong so he's usually filling his points if played right.

[bmon]

Very unique take on how to implement a necromancer. I think Valkrill is in need of a necromancer with wider range of subjects and this fits. I really like it. My only criticism is in the choice of figure. I don't have any examples, but I've seen so many cool necromancer figures in the past that make this figure look weak. This guy just doesn't look terribly menacing.

[Son of Arathorn]

I noticed this guy in your customs thread, and I have to say I like him. Points in your favor include a clear order of operations despite a lot of bells and whistles, good balance of stats, and good implementation of a Necromancer theme (which I know from experience ain’t easy). Here are my critiscisms and questions.
1) that wall of text is a wall of text. It doesn’t disqualify the custom, but it does mean that your margin for error in editing is slim, and I get the feeling at least a couple spots will need tweaking to bring the syntax in line w/official language.
2) those bells and whistles are bells and whistles. Someone always has a grips against complexity (these days I find it’s me more and more). Again, not a disqualification, just a touchy point.
3) I’m sure someone else can answer this better than I, but a quick google search told me that Foulspawn are humanoids corrupted by the Far Realm, a plane of madness and horror. So I’m not 100% sure that a Foulspawn Necromancer is the way to go, given that when customs come from D&D worlds, they ought to stay relatively in line with their lore. As alternatives, maybe Ghoul, or even less specifically, Undead?
3) Is Return of Souls optional? I can see a couple of late game scenarios where I’d rather have an extra defense die on my Necromancer than an extra Tomb Skeleton or Death Knight kicking around, especially when I really have no intention of giving the Squad any more order markers. Adding the clause “you may” could go a long way to diversifying your options, and therefore the unit’s effectiveness in different situations. Of course, if that’s how you played it in testing anyway, you may (see what I did there) need to change the wording to make it clear you CAN resurrects a Skeleton, not that you MUST.
4) I disagree with bmon in that I think that’s a fine figure for a Necromancer. Mustache twirling wizards in black robes are boring- portly ghouls with wicked staves are not. However, I’d be curious to see the figure’s availability, just to know your ducks are in a row before you submit the unit.

[Sir Heroscape]

First off, thanks for the feedback! I really appreciate it when others take the time to let respond.

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

1) that wall of text is a wall of text. It doesn’t disqualify the custom, but it does mean that your margin for error in editing is slim, and I get the feeling at least a couple spots will need tweaking to bring the syntax in line w/official language.

To be honest, I'm not terribly worried. There are more than enough examples of C3V and SoV that have "walls of text" and many more complicated than this set. I'd say that while it may be a little wordy, it is clear and easy to understand. Though, are there spots that you feel need to be more concise or reworded?

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

2) those bells and whistles are bells and whistles. Someone always has a grips against complexity (these days I find it’s me more and more). Again, not a disqualification, just a touchy point.

Not 100% sure what you mean by this.

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

3) I’m sure someone else can answer this better than I, but a quick google search told me that Foulspawn are humanoids corrupted by the Far Realm, a plane of madness and horror. So I’m not 100% sure that a Foulspawn Necromancer is the way to go, given that when customs come from D&D worlds, they ought to stay relatively in line with their lore. As alternatives, maybe Ghoul, or even less specifically, Undead?

I think undead is a good fit, but I really don't see this mini as an undead figure. I'd be interested to see if others have more insight to Foulspawn, but I do think so far it's a good fit...so I'd disagree with you there...at least initially anyway.

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

3) Is Return of Souls optional? I can see a couple of late game scenarios where I’d rather have an extra defense die on my Necromancer than an extra Tomb Skeleton or Death Knight kicking around, especially when I really have no intention of giving the Squad any more order markers. Adding the clause “you may” could go a long way to diversifying your options, and therefore the unit’s effectiveness in different situations. Of course, if that’s how you played it in testing anyway, you may (see what I did there) need to change the wording to make it clear you CAN resurrects a Skeleton, not that you MUST.

Right now it is supposed to read as a MUST. The reason I did that was to keep him from being too strong. I feel like in most situations people would never opt to bring back the units on him because they could always keep him beefed up and attacking 3 times with an attack of 4...which would be much stronger than the weaker skeletons. I have it reading this way right now to give opponents a window of opportunity when/if he brings back a full squad of undead and takes position. He'll be weakened by the lack of souls who were giving him strength, and that's when he's vulnerable. But, that could be subject to change if there were more pushback. That said, I really like the dynamic as it stands with making it a MUST.

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

4) I’d be curious to see the figure’s availability, just to know your ducks are in a row before you submit the unit.

No sweat. He's 99+ available on paizo.com and there's a spattering of him in various online stores and eBay sellers.

[Lazy Orang]

Originally Posted by Son of Arathorn

4) I disagree with bmon in that I think that’s a fine figure for a Necromancer. Mustache twirling wizards in black robes are boring- portly ghouls with wicked staves are not. However, I’d be curious to see the figure’s availability, just to know your ducks are in a row before you submit the unit.

I disagree with this - however, I do feel that mustache twirling wizards in black robes feel more like Utgar necromancers - for a Valkril necromancer, the figure's great!