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  #49  
Old July 6th, 2019, 02:20 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Wounded Valor is just a fun thematic ability that is unique compared to combat challenge.
We shouldn't be comparing with with Combat Challenge. Combat Challenge is an ability with a unique purpose that would allow this unit to function better as a defender. Wounded Valor is only really comparable to different stats.

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Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Why does an ability have to make you change the way you play.
There is a place in the game for purely thematic abilities. But on a unit that already has an excitingly thematic transparent whip, it's overkill.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Sir Dupuis has chalice of fortitude which doesn't change the way you play,
Agreed, which is why I haven't seen anyone who actually likes that ability or has reused it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
neither does one shield defence or slither.
I very much disagree. One Shield Defense is an interesting ability that makes me want to force combats with hard-hitting heroes and not plow into squads, due to how it works. Slither is map-dependent, to be sure, but it's a powerful positioning power for maps that have water in troublesome places (which is common).

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Yes you could change stats but it doesn't give a sense of a warrior fighting it out to the death taking multiple hits.
Why not? That's exactly what Defense and Life stats are.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Wounded Valor could make you want to use disengage because it would make him stronger.
No you wouldn't. It's not like Krug where his offense is boosted. You're trading defenses for defenses. I may make you less wary about disengaging, but more life/defense will do that just as well.

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
The ability makes the opponent either choose a big hitting hero or multiple squad figure to take him out.
How is that different than not having Wounded Valor?

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Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
It draws figures in to kill him because the opponent may get frustrated over the fact that he is nearly dead but keeps defending with increase defence.
Again, how is that different than high Life/Defense?


We already have an interesting, useful unit with just Tether of Logos. We could (and arguably should!) release the unit with just that. It is the core of the unit as well as its thematic draw. And it's pretty wordy. Overcooking units is perhaps the most common trap custom creators crawl into; let's avoid that. I like Combat Challenge because of what it does for the unit, but I could live without. I do not see any reason to add a power like Wounded Valor that has no real gameplay effect and only arguable thematic effect.
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  #50  
Old July 8th, 2019, 10:13 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
...
Power 1:
Tether of Logos

When an opponent’s small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of (figure name) that is no more than (X) levels above his height or (X) levels below his base for the first time in a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an (X) or higher, that figure’s movement ends and you may immediately place them on any (same-level?) space adjacent to (figure name). If that figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Power 2:
Combat Challenge
(possible fixed text)
Figures engaged with (figure name) may only attack figures with the Combat Challenge special power....
The combo of these two powers makes you and your opponent have to think strategically and play differently, especially if you play him with Aura/Cheerleader Heroes or Ranged Heroes and squads. In a way he is almost like a Finn/Thogrim/Concan bonus but only against Melee units, as you are taking hits to prevent your adjacent figures from getting attacked melee. Give him high life/defense/attack and it makes him a solid Defender Cheerleader.
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  #51  
Old July 16th, 2019, 12:49 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I've updated the OP here with the version that includes Tether of Logos and Combat Challenge. While I don't want to hard overrule anyone if possible, Combat Challenge seemed to have a bit more support and I tend to agree with Scytale's arguments on the matter. If we're agreed on this direction, than we don't have much left to iron out before we have a playable design we can move forward with.

Unless anyone has any objections, I'll probably just peek at the height restrictions on Chain Grab and use the same ones for Tether of Logos. I made some small wording adjustments to Tether of Logos also. Only real decision point here is where we want the d20 roll. Do we want it to be about 50%? More? Less?

Same name suggestions taken from Spartans from in or around the battle of Thermopylae. We could either use one of these or adjust one slightly.
Demaratos
Dienekes
Alpheos
Megistias
Eurytos
Aristodemos

I like Demaratos the best, although he technically wasn't one of the 300 Spartans. I don't think we need to worry too much about that level of historical detail, though.

Base stats could also be tweaked. I'm partial to 3A but could see an argument for 4. I could see us going 5L 5D, though I want to avoid cranking him up to NGS levels of tankiness if possible. Overall though
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  #52  
Old July 16th, 2019, 08:01 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Definitely medium 5. Not sure with the design still.

Long live heroscape
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  #53  
Old July 17th, 2019, 04:59 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I've updated the OP here with the version that includes Tether of Logos and Combat Challenge. While I don't want to hard overrule anyone if possible, Combat Challenge seemed to have a bit more support and I tend to agree with Scytale's arguments on the matter. If we're agreed on this direction, than we don't have much left to iron out before we have a playable design we can move forward with.

Unless anyone has any objections, I'll probably just peek at the height restrictions on Chain Grab and use the same ones for Tether of Logos. I made some small wording adjustments to Tether of Logos also. Only real decision point here is where we want the d20 roll. Do we want it to be about 50%? More? Less?

Same name suggestions taken from Spartans from in or around the battle of Thermopylae. We could either use one of these or adjust one slightly.
Demaratos
Dienekes
Alpheos
Megistias
Eurytos
Aristodemos

I like Demaratos the best, although he technically wasn't one of the 300 Spartans. I don't think we need to worry too much about that level of historical detail, though.

Base stats could also be tweaked. I'm partial to 3A but could see an argument for 4. I could see us going 5L 5D, though I want to avoid cranking him up to NGS levels of tankiness if possible. Overall though
My vote is for Dienekes
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  #54  
Old July 18th, 2019, 02:47 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I also vote Dienekes. Claimed to be the bravest Greek to fight at
Battle of Thermopylae

I don't think Tether of Logos (ToL) will be that effective. It will be difficult to keep up with your figures and for ToL to be used most of the time Gideon needs to be adjacent to his own figure to move an enemy figure away. When a figure wants to engage him after moving, ToL is beneficial to them.

An alternative ability using the same name (ToL) which is very defensive based:
When [name] is attacked by a normal attack from an opponent's adjacent figure, before defense dice are rolled, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll [X] or higher, [name] rolls an additional defence die for each blank rolled by the attacking figure.
This would go well with combat challenge.

Long live heroscape

Last edited by The Long eared bat; July 18th, 2019 at 03:55 AM.
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  #55  
Old July 18th, 2019, 09:20 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
I don't think Tether of Logos (ToL) will be that effective. It will be difficult to keep up with your figures and for ToL to be used most of the time Gideon needs to be adjacent to his own figure to move an enemy figure away. When a figure wants to engage him after moving, ToL is beneficial to them.
I very much disagree. As someone who uses Tandros to great effect (and took him to GenCon!), a Combat Challenge + Tether combo has me very excited about the possibilites. I have no doubt it will be very effective.
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  #56  
Old July 18th, 2019, 10:54 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I agree with Scytale (reiterating my comment above). Tether of Logos works even without an order marker on [GC] kinda like all the auras but 2 spaces away. This makes Combat Challenge a lot easier to pull off. Again give him high life/defense and it makes him a solid Defender Cheerleader.
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  #57  
Old July 18th, 2019, 01:13 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I would be happier if Tether of Logos was range 3.

Long live heroscape
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  #58  
Old July 18th, 2019, 01:40 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
I would be happier if Tether of Logos was range 3.
Try testing a small pod of heroes (Raelin + Syvarris + this guy) against Knights or any other solid melee squad. Range 2 is oppressive and probably unavoidable. Range 3 is impossible.
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  #59  
Old July 18th, 2019, 02:01 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

No strong opinions about the name.
Aristodemos sounds awesome and has a cool backstory of redemption.
Dienekes has the cool line about fighting in the shade.
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  #60  
Old July 18th, 2019, 03:16 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Range 3 is impossible
How is it impossible? Tether of Logos isn't currently a given, you have to roll the D-20.

Long live heroscape
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