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  #13  
Old June 25th, 2019, 02:09 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Long eared bat View Post
Isn't pulling in figures too similar to the powers that have been given to Eldrazi.
This is a very good point. Although the design isn’t 100% there yet, some version of Gravity Pull is a concensus with the group.

Could One Shield Defense + Reach work here? This gives him a defender role along with a way to use the whip in battle. Theoretically he could just have straight 2 or 3 range instead of reach as well.

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  #14  
Old June 25th, 2019, 02:10 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

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Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
Could One Shield Defense + Reach work here? This gives him a defender role along with a way to use the whip in battle. Theoretically he could just have straight 2 or 3 range instead of reach as well.
Reach is a poor fit for a defender. If his role is to lock down figures, what good does Reach do?

2/3 Range is problematic. There are no height restrictions on range, so he could attack something on top of a cliff if he could see it.
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  #15  
Old June 25th, 2019, 02:33 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I like the idea of Combat Challenge with a passive movement interruption power. Something like

Tether of Logos
When an opponent’s small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of (figure name) that is no more than (X) levels above his height or (X) levels below his base for the first time in a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an (X) or higher, that figure’s movement ends and you may immediately place them on any (same-level?) space adjacent to (figure name). If that figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Combat Challenge (possible fixed text)
Figures engaged with (figure name) may only attack figures with the Combat Challenge special power.
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  #16  
Old June 25th, 2019, 04:24 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Good piont @The Long eared bat . @All Your Pie Tether of Logos is a little better than the chain grab power. Also means if you move adjacent to a figure it is almost like cyberclaw. I'd keep the D20 low like 11 or 13.
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  #17  
Old June 25th, 2019, 07:18 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by All Your Pie View Post
I like the idea of Combat Challenge with a passive movement interruption power. Something like

Tether of Logos
When an opponent’s small or medium figure moves onto a space within 2 clear sight spaces of (figure name) that is no more than (X) levels above his height or (X) levels below his base for the first time in a turn, you may roll the 20-sided die. If you roll an (X) or higher, that figure’s movement ends and you may immediately place them on any (same-level?) space adjacent to (figure name). If that figure is engaged before it is moved by Tether of Logos, it will not take any leaving engagement attacks.

Combat Challenge (possible fixed text)
Figures engaged with (figure name) may only attack figures with the Combat Challenge special power.
Maybe this guy thematically is some kind being with psionics... his weaons, shields are physical manifestations of his mind.

In addition to logos grab:

Maybe cheerleader or psychout aura of range 2 which affects allies/enemies attack by 1

Gideon has range 2 normal attack

When killed, presence of psionic psychout lowers attack of any unit within LOS permanently like the Vikings heros from RotV

Immune to mind shackle
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  #18  
Old June 25th, 2019, 09:55 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

FYI, there was some discussion of him being sci-fi due to the transparent nature of the whip.

And a spitball for consideration (since stronger-when-wounded was mentioned*):

VENGEVINE** LASH 13
Instead of attacking, roll the d20 once for each wound marker on this card. For each 13 [or whatever number] or higher you roll, choose an adjacent enemy figure to receive 1 wound.


*Could be as simple as Krug's Wounded Smash, too.
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  #19  
Old June 26th, 2019, 05:31 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

I think it would be interesting if he had an ability similar to Opportunity Strike 15 that would allow him to wound the attacking figure and cancel their attack. It would be as if he was stunning his enemy with his whip, kind of like a defensive Whip 12 from James Murphy.
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  #20  
Old June 26th, 2019, 11:13 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Maybe this guy thematically is some kind being with psionics... his weaons, shields are physical manifestations of his mind.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
FYI, there was some discussion of him being sci-fi due to the transparent nature of the whip.
That works for the whip, but the full plate armor is strongly fantasy. Psionic makes some sense, but only for that whip. That shield looks pretty real.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Maybe cheerleader or psychout aura of range 2 which affects allies/enemies attack by 1
I'm against putting in a cheerleading power if our design is looking to fill a defender role, though an aura that reduces attack of enemies fits the role decently.

Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post
And a spitball for consideration (since stronger-when-wounded was mentioned*):

VENGEVINE** LASH 13
Instead of attacking, roll the d20 once for each wound marker on this card. For each 13 [or whatever number] or higher you roll, choose an adjacent enemy figure to receive 1 wound.
Quote:
Originally Posted by NecroBlade View Post

*Could be as simple as Krug's Wounded Smash, too.
**Act now and we'll throw in a FREE MtG reference!

It's neat, but again, if we're going with a defender role, this isn't helping with that. Though there's nothing inherently wrong with giving a defender some combat usefulness.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
When killed, presence of psionic psychout lowers attack of any unit within LOS permanently like the Vikings heros from RotV
Rules-wise, at best we could mark all Uniques within LOS with a marker. The simpler and less insanely powerful version would be to put him on an enemy's card and only affect that card.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Fakeraistlin View Post
Immune to mind shackle
I've never been a fan of anti-take over control abilities, mainly because abilities that take control of units are very rare. Which means the power would mostly just take up space and add mostly meaningless complexity to the unit.
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  #21  
Old June 26th, 2019, 07:19 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

What does defender role mean? What would this role do?
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  #22  
Old June 26th, 2019, 10:09 PM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
What does defender role mean? What would this role do?
A Defender is a unit with either big defense, a defensive power, or a ton of life with the main task of engaging other figures. They’re similar to a Screen, except that they commonly want to engage rather than offer the threat of engagement. If they have nothing good to engage, they also make phenomenal glyph holders.

Examples include Ne Gok Sa, Major X17, Tandros Kreel, and Crixus (to an extent).

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  #23  
Old June 27th, 2019, 09:06 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Thanks for the explanation.

I'd like to point out that the only one of those who has a shield is the one who is only to an extent a defender. My point is, some people seem a little too fixated on the appearance of the figure when Heroscape is littered with figures who's power and or purpose won't match too closely with the figure's appearance. It's a little dull to me to pigeon hole a character or reject an ability because it doesn't meet an eye test the creators obviously didn't restrict themselves to. (Race and faction likely being an exception)


I don't think I have a problem with this character fitting a defender role but it's an eye-roll for me that the main reason appears to be it's carrying a shield and not because we decided it should be or it happened organically.
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  #24  
Old June 27th, 2019, 09:30 AM
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Re: [Pod 1] UNIT NAME (Gideon Jura, Combat Mage) - Design

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jaur0n View Post
I'd like to point out that the only one of those who has a shield is the one who is only to an extent a defender. My point is, some people seem a little too fixated on the appearance of the figure when Heroscape is littered with figures who's power and or purpose won't match too closely with the figure's appearance. It's a little dull to me to pigeon hole a character or reject an ability because it doesn't meet an eye test the creators obviously didn't restrict themselves to. (Race and faction likely being an exception)

I don't think I have a problem with this character fitting a defender role but it's an eye-roll for me that the main reason appears to be it's carrying a shield and not because we decided it should be or it happened organically.
I agree on not pigeonholing.

But as an experienced customer creator and reviewer, and as I have written repeatedly my Codex articles, knowing a unit's role is the most important aspect of its creation. If you don't know what it is you're trying to make, the result is often a lackluster hodgepodge.

The early ideas seemed to pin a defender on this guy, and I suspect the whole project is lacking in that role due to a lack of commons. If we wanted to go another route, I'd be happy to listen to ideas.
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