Soldiers of Valhalla - nominations and discussion

[ZBeeblebrox]

Originally Posted by William099

So he'd get scrapped?

I would not be scrapped, because it is the property of the Author. But it would not be inducted into the SoV.

Remember this is just like the BoV, units may be good but not great....just like maps may be good but great and are not inducted into the BoV.

[lefton4ya]

Originally Posted by Kaemon Awa 123

I'd like to nominate Killer Cactus's Green Wyrmling:

• Balance- Being the only wyrmling without a ranged special balances out his high defence.
• Playability-All powers are clear, master stats make it powerful enough without overbalance. Fits the visual theme of the wyrmlings while remaining visually different.
• Creativity- Mini version of Charos with twist on counterstrike... certainly.
• Theme- Just as well as the rest of the wyrmlings.
• Accessibility- Figure used is a Bronze Wyrmling from D&D minis, widely avaliable on Ebay for around $2

Originally Posted by lefton4ya

New:
Green Wrymling from D&D Copper Wrymling

Modded Killer Cactus's Green Wrymling (up for SoV nomination). His is 3/5 at 30 points, mine is 4/4 at 35 points. Personally, I think 4/4 just feels more like "baby charos" but both are playable. I have had this card for awhile, I just never uploaded here.

Are you guys gonna approve KC's Green Wrymling for testing? Mine is slightly different so you can use mine instead if you prefer (giving credit to KC for the power idea), but I think the bigger issue is that the figure is not the most widely available (although I have 4 of them).

[killercactus]

I think baby green has been denied twice, for various good reasons. I'm back to the drawing board with it.

If I didn't think it would be met with a bunch of hate for being "different", I'd jack up the points a bit, give it some life and make it uncommon. Then it would really feel like Charos' kid to me.

[ZBeeblebrox]

It is not an issue of stats, it is an issue of a “Common” unit with ant form of Counterstrike. We have all tested this and agree that Counterstrike is a very underrated power and on a Flying figure it is deadly to squads. You can fly a Green Wyrmling into a mass of 4Th Mass, and their low attack usually means that they will probably fall. Only the High attack squads have a chance, and even then it is suspect.

This is why Charos is 210 points without a ranged attack, because Counterstrike is powerful. So the Green Wyrmlings would have to be considerably more points to justify any type of Counterstrike.

[lefton4ya]

4 defense counterstrike is better than 5, as (didn't look up odds) 3 attack will kill it more than half the time, and two attack about 1/3 the time. Ranged squads can still shot from away to not get counterstriked, and maybe disengaging and shooting is better than chance of counterstrike.

But I also like KC's idea of a multi-life uncommon but still with wrymling bonding, except the figure itself is the smallest of the wrymlings, so thematically would be weird.

[Dad_Scaper]

I wonder if there's a suitable mini for a small, non-wyrmling Young Green Dragon, an uncommon hero without Wyrmling Bonding.

[dok]

I've been planning on nominating Super Bogue's version of the Green Wyrmling, but I wanted to do some testing first and I haven't gotten around to it. I think he has the right basic idea, though.

I think we've discovered, in a roundabout way, why the designers left 'lil greeny out. He's tough to balance, especially given the obvious (and powerful) synergy with the 4th Mass.

[Dad_Scaper]

Originally Posted by dok

I've been planning on nominating Super Bogue's version of the Green Wyrmling, but I wanted to do some testing first and I haven't gotten around to it. I think he has the right basic idea, though.

I think we've discovered, in a roundabout way, why the designers left 'lil greeny out. He's tough to balance, especially given the obvious (and powerful) synergy with the 4th Mass.

That, and Raelin. The 2+ excess shields is an interesting approach.

[Super Bogue]

Originally Posted by Dad_Scaper

That, and Raelin. The 2+ excess shields is an interesting approach.

Thanks for the props, Dok! If I remember right after the first time KC's Green was denied the 2+ excess shield idea was thrown out by somebody. I adopted that one for my card.
As far as other Green Dragons that could be used as an uncommon baby Charos the Green Dragon from Aberrations would probably be the best one:

This is a medium sized figure so it would be around the same size as a normal medium. Probably a little bigger than a Deathreaver but smaller than a Deathstalker.
Availibilty is low though (only 18 between Auggies and ABprices).
The most practical for size and availiblty would be the Greenspawn Razorfiend from War of the Dragon Queen.

A large figure, however, from this early an expansion it would at most the size of a Deathstalker. There are 49 between Auggies and what ABprices has listed, also it's cheap about $2 to $3 plus shipping.

[dok]

Here are the counterstrike probabilities for SB's version of fledgling counterstrike for some relevant attack and defense values:

       1        2        3        4        5        6        7
4    0.259    0.160    0.097    0.058    0.034    0.020    0.011
5    0.374    0.251    0.164    0.104    0.065    0.040    0.024
6    0.484    0.347    0.241    0.163    0.107    0.069    0.044
7    0.583    0.442    0.324    0.230    0.159    0.108    0.072

For comparison, here is the standard counterstrike probability for those same values:

       1        2        3        4        5        6        7
4    0.605    0.432    0.296    0.197    0.127    0.081    0.050
5    0.704    0.539    0.395    0.279    0.192    0.128    0.084
6    0.781    0.632    0.490    0.365    0.264    0.186    0.128
7    0.839    0.711    0.577    0.450    0.340    0.250    0.179

As you can see, requiring a second excess shield tones it down a lot.

[William099]

Originally Posted by ZBeeblebrox

I would not be scrapped, because it is the property of the Author. But it would not be inducted into the SoV.

Remember this is just like the BoV, units may be good but not great....just like maps may be good but great and are not inducted into the BoV.

Yeah I didn't mean scrapped as in completely forgotten about or destroyed I just meant it wouldn't be inducted.

[lefton4ya]

Looking at the stats dok put up, I think SB's version of fledgling counterstrike with only 4 defense is a pretty much worthless power. Either use SB's version of the power with 5 defense, or use KC's version with 4 defense. Yes, 2/3-attack squads are gonna have a hard time, but it will make the wrymlings a force to be reckoned with.

The concern of either using them as a screen for the 4th and/or having Raelin still is a way that this unit can be broken in thoeryscape.