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#1
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Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
So, I've been rolling this around in my head for a couple years now, trying to decided what I wanted to do with it. I decided I need to write it all down someplace so I have a reference, and I figured that place might as well be one where I can get some feedback. Don't be surprised though, if it turns into a lot of chicken scratch and inane rambling.
My Heroscape collection sort of exists to me as the ultimate game building toolkit. It has so many genres and units and options and terrain setups I can essentially play the game endlessly without really getting tired of it. The one thing that does drag things down for me are the minor imbalances that stop every unit from competing with the best. Yes, those units get play in fun games here, but it usually ends in disappointment and frustration. The embodiment of this whole predicament for me is the Templar whose release was probably the greatest disappointment for me in the life of the game. So, anyway, since Wave 7 I've started to think about the endless life of the game and how someday, those kind of imbalances just won't be acceptable to get the most out of my collection. Wave 9 was sort of a trigger for me as the last Craig Van Ness designed set of units, and since its release the appeal of playing by my own rules has jumped dramatically. I'd like to seriously sit down and rebalance the game with the magic of 20/20 hindsight. I'm not saying Heroscape is a poorly balanced game; I wouldn't even dream of a project like this if it was. It's more a matter of it being so darn close, improving it isn't an impossibility. That's the basic idea though, changing what needs to be changed to ensure my entire collection is pretty playable. So here's my plan: Phase 0: Raelin and Drake Simply put, I'm tossing out the RotV versions of these characters and sticking to the SotM editions. Both are better balanced (though not always better) than their original versions, and in the case of Raelin specifically, are significantly less complicated to balance around. Phase 1: Categorical Imblances There's a few things in the game that are just more powerful than they probably should be, but for the most part, are quite well balanced within themselves. Range vs Melee and Hero vs Squads are probably the biggest two, but if anyone has any others I'd appreciate the . Things like this seem like things that a global houserule can hopefully take care, but they've really got to be hammered out first. Honestly, if this is all I accomplish, I'll probably be pretty darn happy with the results. Phase 2: Custom Changes to Individual Units I really want to keep away from this as much as possible, because its just an impossible task. If I really thought this was the problem, I wouldn't even bother with the whole thing. It just turns into a giant game of whack a mole until you've broken things beyond repair. I simply suspect there's a few units out there who no matter how much the game changes around them just won't work until they get changed. A couple of things I want to keep in mind however:
So anyway, that's the idea. I'm mostly just posting this to get things written down for my own reference. Comments, suggestions, and smacks upside the head when I miss something entirely are all well appreciate. |
#2
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
Phase 1: Current Thoughts
So, as I said, the first thing I want to improve is a few categorical imbalances. This is really more my style anyway, as I can do so much of this in spreadsheets and math. Anyway, here's my current thoughts on the two biggest categorical imbalances: Range vs Melee This is really the first thing I want to take care of and probably the part where I started with this whole thing. Range has quite a few significant advantages in this game that really make them easier to play more effectively. As far as individual units are concerned, however, they're actually pretty effectively balanced under the idea that ranged strikes first, but melee is statistically superior once engaged. I think the real imbalance is more an issue of Range vs Move. The stats themselves are handled pretty well, with most Range values falling within the threat range of the reciprocating Move. Engagement and Move 1st rules ensure that once caught up, melee units have a chance. I think where problems start to arise is the fact that Heroscape's terrain generally ensures most units get a space or two less horizontal movement than advertised, while Range remains unencumbered by terrain. This is what allows ranged units to stay out of sword's reach indefinitely. What I have in mind for this is actually kind of funny (to me at least). I was actually considering this whole thing a few months ago and decided to hold back and see if Wave 9 would mess with it. Instead, one of the figures in Wave 9 essentially utilized the same idea. Anyway, here's what I had in mind:
For the record, when I did the math on this, it bumps the average move in the game all the way up to 8.55, which is actually a little low since it doesn't account for Special Abilities that enhance movement or attack (most notably the Marrden Hounds and Anubian Wolves). That's enough to cover the distance of a 7 range attack with enough extra to deal with a few changes in elevation. The one thing I haven't fully decided on is how to deal with 2x attack figures. Their attack is a little undervalued in the additional move, but I'm not completely set on giving Minions 10 move Flying just because they were close enough to Taelord. Last edited by Eclipse; July 31st, 2009 at 04:54 PM. |
#3
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
Phase 1: Current Thoughts
On to the second issue I suppose: Heroes vs Squads I went into this in some detail recently in the thread on the myth of Skulls vs Shields. To summarize, in the battle of Skulls vs Shields, the purpose of Shields isn't to block indefinitely, but to provide value to Attack values higher than 1. For the most part, this rarely happens in Heroscape, creating a situation where, frankly, you really just don't need that high of an Attack value to hit something. Instead, the more attacks you have, the more success you get every turn, which is why squads are so darn powerful. Heroes get hit with a double whammy in this situation as squads also benefit from an inability to lose more than one life per attack (barring the relatively rare AoE). That's not to say squads themselves are actually a problem, just that its not as even as it could be. Most of the time you're better off swapping out a hero with more of the same squad anyway. The start zone rule helps with this somewhat, but it's really more about limiting the length of a game to me than balancing out the units. It does make room for a few high priced heroes, but the units it puts the greatest restrictions on really need their low price, swarmy nature to perform. It's a great tourny rule, but not one I want to stick with to make the most of my collection. So anyway, I think the real problem with Heroes is simply a matter of defense. Heroes average around 3-4 defense with squads rarely breaking out of the 2-3 attack range. A whole ton of math later this comes to about 0.508 wounds per attack over time or about 1.5-2 wounds per turn. Obviously, this is where the problem sets in, as few heroes can survive the 3 turns required to take out even one squad even if they had 100% kill chance per turn, let alone the 50-65% kill chance they average. I think the best solution is to play with something similar to Dismiss the Rabble. Give heroes 2-3 defense when defending against a normal attack from a squad figure (squad special attacks should NOT be included; all 5 of them are quite well restricted for heroes). In theory this should work, though I'm thinking this might be the reason I have to lower the stats of certain characters (Q9). Starting with Wave 6, quite a few heroes were designed with squad dominance in mind. Giving them a straight boost could easily drive things too far the other way. |
#4
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
Thanks for sharing and I look forward to seeing more of your thoughts.
Quote:
That sounds intriguing. Another option I've tried is to allow Heroes to use their normal attacks against EVERY adjacent squaddie (sort of like Shaolin Assault). This is supposed to simulate the ability of Heroes to cut through peons like butter. And yes there's probably lots of problems with doing this, but it certainly makes heroes more fearsome vs. squads. Perhaps limit it to a maximum of 3 attacks. |
#5
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
I understand that you see starting zone spaces as time limiting, not game balancing, but have you considered just realigning what number of spaces are presumed to correspond to which point total? Dropping a 500 point game to 20 starting zone spaces doesn't make heroes more powerful, but having a hero almost always gives an army the edge over one that just ate the points.
One other proposed method (not my favorite, but I haven't given it a try to be honest)- heroes can use the X marker to take a fourth turn. |
#6
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
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I don't like using starting zone spaces as a balance mechanic because it's not in any way a performance oriented criteria. There's almost no correlation in the game between ppb and effectiveness, so limiting units by ppb makes absolutely no sense. Why place a greater burden on Nerak than Nilfheim? Besides, that's really not the point. I can just ban Q9 and call the game more balanced, but the idea isn't to improve balance by limiting options, it's to expand options by improving balance. I don't care if someone wants all squad armies, I just want squad armies or heroes armies or mix armies or whatever to be on more equal footing. |
#7
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
I posted this in another thread, but I can track it better here. Here's the rules I've been testing out lately for large scale battles:
Order Marker Sets Each player is granted an additional set of order markers per 600 points as follows: Army Total : Order Markers used 10-600 : 1 set (RotV Grey) 600-1200 : 2 sets (RotV Grey, SotM Green) 1200-1800 : 3 sets (RotV Grey, SotM Green, Marvel Blue) Special Rules for Placing Markers At the start of a round, players place order markers as they normally would, with the following additional restrictions:
Special Rules for Common Units
Last edited by Eclipse; August 1st, 2009 at 03:31 PM. |
#8
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
The ppb argument is a valid one, and I understand the philosophy behind it doesn't match what you're trying to acheive. It was merely an argument for simplicity in solution. There are a great many rules that may be implemented, however once you have balanced the game, it should still be learnable, and playable, no?
Then again, this is primarily driven from a standpoint of one who is thoroughly competent at the existing game, in all its nuances and rules as they stand; a few more wouldn't kill the fun. Either way, I'm very interested in your progress and musings, and I don't mean to criticize your goals. |
#9
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
I didn't take it as criticism, I just wanted to explain why I'm not going that route and also why I'm not keen on arguing getting rid of it for tournaments
As for playability, it's something I'm keeping in mind and part of the reason I'm trying to minimize the changes. A couple global houserules aren't too hard to deal with, but it can easily get out of hand. Any unit specific changes I make though, I plan to do a custom card for as well. |
#10
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
I'm watching this with great interest! You're methodically and systematically improving and organizing the various hodge-podge of house rules I've been using and thinking about using. You're also solving some of the problems I didn't have solutions to. I especially like the Range vs. Move solution. I'll have to playtests that.
This is exciting! Customs: Superhero Sci-Fi Classic Terrain Tactical Meeples (My Game Blog) Customizing Tools Star Wars Campaign Last edited by GreyOwl; August 2nd, 2009 at 06:02 PM. |
#11
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
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#12
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Re: Custom Project: Heroscape 1.5
Glad to hear you like the idea. If you get a chance to playtest any of these houserules, please feel free to post your findings. I'm always looking for problem units that get a little too much out of the rule. Right now I'm mostly focused on the range rule, as that's the most universal change. Once I get an idea of what units become outliers, I can start looking into refinements if needed, or add in the hero rule to see how that changes things further.
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