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  #145  
Old September 12th, 2020, 09:32 PM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

Vegie won the Online Con General Wars event with Charos, Greenscalesx3 and Syvvaris. I think it was a format that really helped mask some of his weaknesses (format was General Wars, 18 figure limit and no more than 200 points of any one common card) I think he’s very matchup dependent. In my game against Vegie he never even got an OM because I was playing Zelrig. In the finals he got some early OMs and took out Raelin in two turns. In an unrestricted format I can’t ever see a reason I would take him over Krav except for figure limit, and then I’d probably try to find an extra 20 points for Skahen.

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  #146  
Old September 12th, 2020, 10:59 PM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

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Originally Posted by boromir96 View Post
Vegie won the Online Con General Wars event with Charos, Greenscalesx3 and Syvvaris. I think it was a format that really helped mask some of his weaknesses (format was General Wars, 18 figure limit and no more than 200 points of any one common card) I think hes very matchup dependent. In my game against Vegie he never even got an OM because I was playing Zelrig. In the finals he got some early OMs and took out Raelin in two turns. In an unrestricted format I cant ever see a reason I would take him over Krav except for figure limit, and then Id probably try to find an extra 20 points for Skahen.
Definitely agree. Syv & Charos cover each other's weaknesses well in a format where you can't spam ranged commons.

I also had Syv in my army that won Rainbow War this year, filling 2 different roles depending on the game:
1) Assassinate Raelin early, much as you described with Vegie's finals
2) Be better at fighting Q9 from long range than Q9 is at fighting another Q9. Specifically, with height Syv is throwing 2x4 from 7-9 range, which is better than Q9 can do at 7-8 range. Syv was actually quite important in my 2nd round game against almost a mirror match (both built around Q9/Raelin) in helping my Q9 fight my opponent's Q9.

Similar to General Wars with low commons count, Rainbow Wars also makes it impossible to spam any single common, which means more heroes and increases Syv's value a lot. And in Rainbow Wars specifically, you can't add Krav or Skahen to your army if you have Q9, so Syv gets another boost there by becoming the best available at filling that role.
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  #147  
Old September 12th, 2020, 11:07 PM
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Syvarris works best in a low common environment on bumpier shorter maps where he has a screen. How biggest problem is his fragility and the easier it is to keep him safe from dying quickly the better. He can absolutely be powerful but he needs those to truly shine

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  #148  
Old September 13th, 2020, 10:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

I guess I've played Syvarris to a bit of tournament success now even though I don't love him as a figure. I had the Online Con General Wars win with Charos Greenscales x3 Syvarris and I also took him to Gencon Day 2 in 2018 with Knights x1, Alastair, Tagawa Samurai Archers x2, Raelin, Syvarris.

In General Wars it was definitely the meta that prompted me to play Syv. Well, the meta prompted me to play Charos who is nicely helped by Syv. Charos and Greenscales would otherwise be forced to straight run at armies which they do not want to do. Syvarris had two big games, one where he killed Moltenclaw and one where he killed Raelin.

At Gencon 2018 I was trying to build a very defensive pod and I wanted Syvarris in there as the anchor, so I could pod against any army. Ultimately I think Syvarris actually made the build too good as I was bounced in the first round RtW of Day 2 by ISB3 (Cutters x3, Carr, Alastair, Dund) who heavily relied on Syvarris for hits on my heroes over the Cutters.

I do like him in Rainbow Wars too.

It's hard for me to rate Syvarris because he was one of the most memorable figures for me when I was 8 years old and first playing Heroscape, I thought he was so cool, and that's my major memory of him as he's not competitively played often. Overall I think he's so dependent on the game flow and really just how carefully he is played. He is so fragile. He's basically Guilty McGreech with 2 more life and 2 more range, and it's really the range that gives him survivability, but you have to abuse his max range more than any other figure in Heroscape. In one of my Gencon 2018 Day 1 RtW games I actually was handed a Syvarris so it was a Syvarris mirror. My opponent stepped up Syvarris to try to shoot at my Raelin and my Syvarris just stayed up high and instantly popped his and then I had a massive lead. He has so much power but you have to be incredibly careful with it.

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  #149  
Old September 15th, 2020, 11:49 PM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

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Originally Posted by boromir96 View Post
In an unrestricted format I can’t ever see a reason I would take him over Krav except for figure limit, and then I’d probably try to find an extra 20 points for Skahen.
If I really wanted to play elf archers, I might try to fit 2x Aurbiens in my list instead. Especially if it's going to replace Syv and Theracus, the same 140 points in AAs has a lot more potential.

It's actually a really interesting comparison between Syv a squad of AAs.

Looking at the probability table here, you can expect an average of 4 attacks a round from the AAs. They'll be throwing 4 sets of 2 dice on average while Syv throws 2 sets of 3 dice.

They have 2 less range, but move an average of 1.25 more spaces.

Syv has 4 life compared to their total of 3, and the same defense. Aubriens having 1 life means that they stand zero chance of surviving a wound but it also means that they are not damaged by extra wounds. If Krug rolls 6 skulls, you take 1 damage. For Syv, if Krug rolls 6 skulls and Syv has height and manages to roll 3 shields, he still takes 3 wounds. Then maybe dies to double attack.

What life also means is that Syv never loses combat effectiveness until he dies. If one of your last 3 AAs dies, that drastically cuts down the output of the unit from an average of 4 attacks to an average of 2.667 attacks, which throws 5.333 dice in total.

Heroes are less susceptible to auto kill abilities, while squads can spread out to mitigate them.

Outside of a vacuum comparison, AA's also have more synergies.

Frenzy is a big deal when it's a big deal. Throwing a lot of dice at once is going to hurt things, but throwing a decent amount of dice a lot of times will just do more work. It's just playing probabilities. If my opponent rolls defense dice more often, it gives more opportunity for them to whiff. If I roll attack dice more often, it gives me more opportunities to roll skulls.

My initial hypothesis before I started writing was that AAs will be better against squads while Syv will be better against heroes, but the 1 extra attack that Syv has really doesn't make a significant difference if you roll it half as much as the AAs roll. Statistically, Syv is better against heroes, but realistically, rolling more dice just gives more chances to deal damage. However, if the Frenzy dice are cold, Syv is the clear winner.

I'm sure someone can really run the numbers on every possible instance of dice and then they'll tell me that I'm wrong. It appears that Mathguy's old match up calculator is broken, or I would make an attempt at it. I know for a fact that playing 100 or 1000 games would statistically show Syv is better at taking out high defense, higher life heroes, My napkin math shows 5 DEF and 3 life, or 4 DEF and 5 life to be the points where he's going to work better than them, but even then, he doesn't have that potential for high variance destruction in an individual game like they do.

Syvarris was incredibly strong in his time, but he is old and the new kids have better toys. I wouldn't be surprised to see that an army with him wins, especially as start zones continue to decrease in tournaments, but 9 times out of 10, I wouldn't think that he is the reason it won. He can still have his moments, he just needs the right environment for them, and Veggie really had the right environment.

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Last edited by The_X_Marker; September 16th, 2020 at 01:25 PM.
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  #150  
Old September 16th, 2020, 01:59 AM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

Besides range if they are available I would take Krav over Syvarris every time. 2 Less range for 1 more attack and stealth dodge seems worth it to me.
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  #151  
Old September 16th, 2020, 09:09 AM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

If you want a little better version, see my Competitive Unit Alters version of him which adds Evasive 1, which helps stay more alive against range, as he is great against melee with his ability to kite, but range is his weakness. I give him a A- with this power, versus B without.
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  #152  
Old September 16th, 2020, 08:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Syvarris

I like that idea, I like it for Sonlen too as he always seemed kind of expensive for what you get from him.
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