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  #85  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 01:09 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Let me run an example:

Justice League Glyph 1:
When you control any of the following figures, the respective figure may use a power listed on this card, as if it is listed on its own card.
  • Batman: Once per round, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card to randomly remove one Order Marker from an opponent's Army Card.
  • Cyborg: At the start of the game, place a glyph of Boom Tube power-side up anywhere in your start zone.
  • The Flash: Before moving, you may choose an adjacent small or medium figure you control. After moving, place the chosen figure adjacent to Flash.
  • Doctor Fate: For each Order Marker removed when using Helm of Nabu, you may instead add 2 to your roll.
  • Wonder Woman: While an opponent's figure is lassoed, you may look at any Order Markers on their card.

Not saying these are what would be used, if they are balanced, or anything of the sort. But merely a means to give an idea of why something like this could be an incredible opportunity to play these figures together, and how much it would encourage the use of them. That's 1 glyph grouping of a potential of 3, so 10 more units could be covered, each offering more powers being given by playing those characters in your army. Have whoever be able to place 1 on his card, and have another figure's card eligible to place one on theirs through a new design. Or have whoever the hub is be able to place 2 on his card, whatever works. Maybe make some of them once per game, and have them be a bit better of a boost. Have some of them directly tie into the another, such as Wonder Woman being able to look at any Order Marker placed on a lassoed figure, while Batman can remove one by revealing an X.
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  #86  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 02:04 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Although Fate may have served in the JL, he's much more iconically a member of the JSA. But I like what you have there. My suggestion was more an idea that allowed the same feel while leaving open the wonky Heroscape synergies that some like while also making use of the list that you and Yodaking worked to put together.
I'm not saying it's better, just offering an alternative if you meet any more opposition.

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  #87  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 02:08 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
Although Fate may have served in the JL, he's much more iconically a member of the JSA. But I like what you have there. My suggestion was more an idea that allowed the same feel while leaving open the wonky Heroscape synergies that some like while also making use of the list that you and Yodaking worked to put together.
I'm not saying it's better, just offering an alternative if you meet any more opposition.
I'm hoping we can meet a middle ground. Perhaps some of the powers reference Classes/Personalities? I'm not sure. But I really like the groundwork, reach, and personal nature these powers can add. Balancing them will be key, but I think the brainstorming between all of us, can come up with some really fun and useful abilities.
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  #88  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 02:12 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
Although Fate may have served in the JL, he's much more iconically a member of the JSA. But I like what you have there. My suggestion was more an idea that allowed the same feel while leaving open the wonky Heroscape synergies that some like while also making use of the list that you and Yodaking worked to put together.
I'm not saying it's better, just offering an alternative if you meet any more opposition.
I'm hoping we can meet a middle ground. Perhaps some of the powers reference Classes/Personalities? I'm not sure. But I really like the groundwork, reach, and personal nature these powers can add. Balancing them will be key, but I think the brainstorming between all of us, can come up with some really fun and useful abilities.
You've gotten two of us old foagies interested and active again.

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  #89  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 09:07 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
I have a similar but different idea for the team card. Instead of calling out characters by name, what if you used the previous list you pulled together?
For instance,
Power1
After revealing an Order Marker on a card in your army and moving that figure, you may attack with a different figure in your army. You may only use this power if you have a Champion, Vigilante, and Martian in your Army.

Power2
After revealing an order Marker and making a close combat attack with a figure you control, you may make a ranged attack with one unengaged Unigue Hero that you control. You may only use this power if you have an Amazon, Thanagarian, and an Archer in your army.

etc. etc.

I think you get the point. Thoughts on this direction?
Since the original idea of creating synergies with class and personality became to hard because there were too many choices I find this idea fascinating. You can use wording like "If you have a Driven Vigilante..."

Quote:
Originally Posted by Spidey'tilIDie View Post
Well, to offer a bit of creative fodder, here is the role that I believe each of the big 7 (plus some extra) play in the JL inner machinations.

Superman - inspiration
Manhunter - mental and emotional tether
Batman - Contingency plan
Wonder Woman - pacifist that can fight
Flash - reconnaissance and evac
GL - precise scalpel or giant blunt instrument; interstellar knowledge
Aquaman - wildcard, sometimes pompous, others awkward socially, usually friendly
Zatanna - Magic user
Cyborg - tech version of Zatanna, took the place of Steel
Atom - Inventive scientist
Hawkman - knowledge of ancient civilizations, battle ferocity
Harkgirl - battle instincts and calming influence on Hawkman
Booster Gold and Beetle - goofoffs that want to fit in and deep down want to be remembered
Black Canary - voice of reason amongst a lot of type A personalities
Plastic Man - comedy relief and trickster
Green Arrow - He is the liberal minded man to Hal's conservative view point also precise scalpel and blunt instrument
This is wonderfully put together and I think I agree with all of it.

Superman can inspire with attack bonus
Batman could have the contingency plan type power that allows you to move order markers
Martian Manhunter could provide the telepathic link (clear sight or taking temporarily control block
Flash could have something similar to Alfred's bring them home power or more of a "if a figure within X spaces of Flash would be destroyed by an opponents attack you may instead move Flash X' spaces. Flash must move through the attacked figure during this move and place the attacked figure adjacent to Flash. Moved figures do not take leaving engagement....

wording sucks but I'm sure you get the point.

Would I want it to be everything I love...sure...but that's just not realistic so I'm going to focus on finding things that will make me unhappy and work on fixing those.
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  #90  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 09:43 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

I really love Sock's direction. I think we'd have to settle in on the best way to approach the powers mechanically, with the text at the top (for instance, I'm not sold on the powers needing to be considered part of the figure's card, they could just be a power on the glyph itself that you're able to use as a player if you meet certain conditions), but those are gameplay details. I think the overall concept of the individual power call outs is awesome and the way to go, and I think you have a lot of great examples here.

I really like the idea of keeping most of the powers light touches and one-offs, so that they add definite value, but that value doesn't have to come with a huge price tag. For instance, I thought this might be a fun one:

When you roll for your Black Canary's Canary Cry Special Attack, figures you control are not affected.

Very light touch, but the theme is that the JL works so well with her that they're prepared with special ear plugs, allowing her to go wild without fear of hurting her own. Definite strategic advantage, but not a huge, huge thing.

I think Superman could be anywhere from an attack boost to an initiative one. I'd love it if whatever he gave got slightly better when facing enemy Event Heroes, as I think that theme is perfect.

I think we'll have to hash out how the top part of the power will work best, and thus the exact mechanics, as well as review what all we need for glyph text on the card. After we do that, we'll have a more realistic idea of how many of these powers we can fit on one card. Already, I'm thinking 5 per card is likely too ambitious, and that 3 is probably a more realistic goal.

Even 3 cards with 9 powers does about all I need for this, though, as that's plenty of room to encourage play between the most iconic members. Given that whoever the hub is (Martian Manhunter really does seem like the best option, IMO) is going to be connected to that group just by bringing in the glyph, that really ties 10 heroes together.

So who are the 10 most iconic JLers? I think that's a good place to start. Superman, Wonder Woman, Batman, Green Lantern, Flash, Aquaman, Cyborg, Martian Manhunter, Green Arrow, Black Canary seems about right to me.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aggressive Sock View Post
Let me run an example:

Justice League Glyph 1:
When you control any of the following figures, the respective figure may use a power listed on this card, as if it is listed on its own card.
  • Batman: Once per round, you may reveal the "X" Order Marker on this card to randomly remove one Order Marker from an opponent's Army Card.
  • Cyborg: At the start of the game, place a glyph of Boom Tube power-side up anywhere in your start zone.
  • The Flash: Before moving, you may choose an adjacent small or medium figure you control. After moving, place the chosen figure adjacent to Flash.
  • Doctor Fate: For each Order Marker removed when using Helm of Nabu, you may instead add 2 to your roll.
  • Wonder Woman: While an opponent's figure is lassoed, you may look at any Order Markers on their card.

Not saying these are what would be used, if they are balanced, or anything of the sort. But merely a means to give an idea of why something like this could be an incredible opportunity to play these figures together, and how much it would encourage the use of them. That's 1 glyph grouping of a potential of 3, so 10 more units could be covered, each offering more powers being given by playing those characters in your army. Have whoever be able to place 1 on his card, and have another figure's card eligible to place one on theirs through a new design. Or have whoever the hub is be able to place 2 on his card, whatever works. Maybe make some of them once per game, and have them be a bit better of a boost. Have some of them directly tie into the another, such as Wonder Woman being able to look at any Order Marker placed on a lassoed figure, while Batman can remove one by revealing an X.

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  #91  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 10:00 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

I want some variety in there, personally. Just bringing the most iconic to the table and encouraging play between them isn't enough, if we're shooting for something spectacular here. If we can fit 3 more in there, and make it 4 per card, that may make it easier. I also think 3 per card is a little too limiting if the hub can only start with 1 glyph. Regardless, I'd say getting the text down for the glyph itself is key.

I'd hate to leave the likes of Zatanna, Fate, and Tornado out. They're just too great and fun to think up powers for.

If kept short and to the point with most of the powers, I don't see the initial text describing how the glyph works taking up too much space either. It just needs to cover the concept that powers can be used by those figures as if they were on their card, and that the glyph can't be destroyed etc.
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  #92  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 10:30 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

I really, really, really, hate calling out specific names.

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  #93  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 10:39 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

And I don't think Glyphs or team cards are the right direction to take for the Justice League.

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  #94  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 11:11 AM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Wow, guys, can you please slow down a little.

First off, as to the team glyph concept, I'll say I'm intrigued. My first reaction (when you guys started off with it as a single complex card) was "no way"; but where you guys have worked it now does look pretty interesting. However, my biggest catch is that it doesn't offer enough versatility. For me, the core of the Justice League is that it's a huge and consistently changing group; I should be able to play Superman, Wonder Woman, John Stewart, and Hawkgirl as my army one game, and Martian Manhunter, Vixen, Red Arrow, and Mister Terrific the next (these are just examples, not specific requests). Any version that doesn't have this openness is going to be a hard sell for me. Also, by naming a select group of figures, you make it feel too much like a specific team and loose the "group of individuals" feel.

Overall, I'm not against the team glyph concept, but I don't feel like it's capturing the Justice League yet. And, that aside, I do still prefer the marker version over any of the others discussed.

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  #95  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 12:57 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

Thanks for the input guys. Hmmmm...
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  #96  
Old July 23rd, 2015, 01:06 PM
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Re: Justice League Design Discussion

It should be stated that the glyph idea could result in MM starting with 3 of them, thus getting him 9-12 different options for forming a team, like most synergies would offer.

Regardless...

It seems we're still just as equally split, if not more-so on the opposing side this time. So I'm not quite so sure what direction to take.
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