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C3G Library This area collects all the released designs. Feel free to post any figure specific questions in their individual books.


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  #37  
Old December 14th, 2016, 09:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by johnny139 View Post
Why not just place the Glyph on the battlefield and remove it when it's no longer active? And put a "can't be picked up" clause in there. Same way we do Gas Glyphs.
More wording, and as Tornado points out, it affects figures when placed, not figures that move into the range. So leaving it on the field doesn't do much to help.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I'd try going with having it last until 'the end of the round or until you reveal a #ed OM' approach and see if any issues arise from that. It should result in the effects only lasting through your current turn and one of each opponents turns.
Yeah, not only does adding "until the end of the round or" in there avoid issues with it carrying over a round, it also encourages you to use it earlier in the round instead of trying for an Init switch for an extra turn of use.

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  #38  
Old December 17th, 2016, 08:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

Okay, SP updated. I re-propose we move Batwoman to Initial Playtesting.

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  #39  
Old December 17th, 2016, 08:47 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

Yea

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  #40  
Old December 17th, 2016, 09:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

YEA

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #41  
Old December 17th, 2016, 11:02 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

Still not loving the possible bookkeeping nightmare here but I am willing to see it play out.
Yea

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  #42  
Old December 18th, 2016, 03:26 AM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

yea
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  #43  
Old December 21st, 2016, 06:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Vote for Initial Testing!

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
Okay, SP updated. I re-propose we move Batwoman to Initial Playtesting.
This passes on time. Probably won't get to the tests until after the holiday though. Friday/Saturday is a possibility, and next week if not.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #44  
Old December 31st, 2016, 11:31 AM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
My next obligation for the Anniversary wave, a character I've wanted to do for a long time now, and an old Sidekick era write-up: Batwoman!

Few notes, first on the mini. I've got the one from the Batman set in the OP right now:

because it's a slightly cooler mini and I own it, so pics aren't an issue. Availability and price might be though. As an alternative there's the Crisis set one:
which is much cheaper and easier to get a hold of. Thoughts on which one is better?


As for the design itself. I have Utility Belt 2 here to spice up the design a little (had UB1 originally) and because Batwoman uses a ton of gadgets. Not quite Bruce level, but I think UB2 is fitting. I also considered designing a Utility Glyph for her, along the lines of a Flash Bang Grenade or Tear Gas for the military connection. Still brainstorming ideas this week, but open to any suggestions on that front.

Also considered Stealth Dodge instead of Bulletproof Suit. I like the latter because she's less stealthy than Bruce, and often takes shots rather than dodges them. A simple reuse of Stealth Dodge is hard to argue against though.
I have the second mini here so we should be good to go either way.

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
It was a great idea that really brought this concept to the next level and now I just have to convince you of your own brilliance.
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  #45  
Old January 3rd, 2017, 11:34 AM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Design Phase

Quote:
Originally Posted by japes View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by TrollBrute View Post
My next obligation for the Anniversary wave, a character I've wanted to do for a long time now, and an old Sidekick era write-up: Batwoman!

Few notes, first on the mini. I've got the one from the Batman set in the OP right now:

because it's a slightly cooler mini and I own it, so pics aren't an issue. Availability and price might be though. As an alternative there's the Crisis set one:
which is much cheaper and easier to get a hold of. Thoughts on which one is better?
I have the second mini here so we should be good to go either way.
Awesome! We'll just need to make a decision on this before Final Editing.

This weekend ended up unexpectedly busy, and the Scape stuff is kinda buried right now to make space for the holidays, but I should be able to get to the Initial now that we're in the new year.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #46  
Old January 6th, 2017, 08:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Initial Testing

As I sat down to work on the Initial, I realized that Bulletproof Suit is extremely messy as currently worded. She currently negates even SAs like Cyclops' if her rolls fewer than 3 skulls. There are a number of different ways to fix this, including limiting it to normal attacks, but this is my preferred version:
Quote:
BULLETPROOF SUIT
If a non-adjacent figure targets Batwoman for an attack and rolls 2 or fewer skulls, you may ignore that attack.
This gets weird of oddities like negating Cyclops' or Banshee's, but she can still block a Shotgun SA blast if she is targeted. It makes for a nice gameplay wrinkle and removes the messiness. That's the version I played with for these games:


C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Batwoman

I didn’t write them up, but before these games, I ran a few Hero tests. She went 3-3 against Merlyn, Tombstone, and Banshee, all 160 figures.

Army Test
Map: Swamp Lab
Units: Batwoman (160), Robin (Dick, 100), Oracle (110), Catgirl (60), Nite-Owl (130), Ragman (140) (700) VS Noh-Varr (260), Kree Soldier x8 (240), Kree Scout x5 (200) (700)
Unit Summary:
Damage w/normal:
3 Soldiers destroyed, 1 wound to Noh-Varr,
Utility Belt 2: Flashbang and Smoke Pellets chosen.
Bulletproof Suit: 2 attacks negated.
Surgical Strike: 1 additional wound to Noh-Varr.
Spoiler Alert!



Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batwoman (160), Robin (Dick, 100), Oracle (110), Catgirl (60), Nite-Owl (130), Rorschach (140) (700) VS Luke Cage (190), Iron Fist (260), Spider-Man (250) (700)
Unit Summary:
Damage w/normal:
3 wounds to Luke Cage, 2 to Iron Fist (one of each of these came from Secret Attack Plan).
Utility Belt 2: Flashbang and Bolas chosen.
Bulletproof Suit: 0 attacks negated.
Surgical Strike: 1 additional wound to Luke Cage, 1 to Iron Fist.
Spoiler Alert!



Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batwoman (160), Robin (Dick, 100), Oracle (110), Catgirl (60), Nite-Owl (130), Rorschach (140) (700) VS Luke Cage (190), Iron Fist (260), Spider-Man (250) (700)
Unit Summary:
Damage w/normal:
2 wounds to Iron Fist (1 from SAP), 1 to Luke Cage.
Utility Belt 2: Flashbang and Bolas chosen.
Bulletproof Suit: 0 attacks negated.
Surgical Strike: 1 additional wound to Iron Fist, to Cage.
Spoiler Alert!



Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batwoman (160), Robin (Dick, 100), Oracle (110), Catgirl (60), Nite-Owl (130), Rorschach (140) (700) VS Kingpin (220), The Hood (180), Black Tarantula (300) (700)
Unit Summary:
Damage w/normal:
3 wounds to Kingpin (1 from SAP), 1 to The Hood.
Utility Belt 2: Flashbang and Bolas chosen.
Bulletproof Suit: 0 attacks negated.
Surgical Strike: 2 additional wounds to Kingpin, 1 to The Hood.
Spoiler Alert!


After these, I ran one game without Batwoman to test the glyph. I want to weaken its use outside of Batwoman builds though, so I changed it to -1 to for non-Disciplined Vigilantes. See next post for exact details.

Army Test
Map: Custom
Units: Batman(II, 250), Oracle (110), Batgirl (130), Robin(Damian, 80), Nite-Owl (130), Captain America (240), Bucky (60) (1000) VS Ms Marvel (350), Bizarro (330), Green Lantern (Guy, 320) (1000)
Spoiler Alert!


___________________________________________________________


FINAL THOUGHTS ON THE UNIT: Batwoman feels close, but not quite there just yet. Her power are fine, and very thematic, though I may want to bump Bulletproof suit to “3 or fewer” if it comes in too weak. Otherwise, the powers feel right. Surgical Strike makes her play like Batwoman, and Utility Belt 2 is fun. For all my resistance to it, I really like how Bulletproof suit plays.

However, Batwoman feels slightly weak right now. She can do a ton of damage, especially when the Flash Bang can be optimized, but she goes down really quickly though. The 1-3 record here kind of backs that up too, I think. Without any defensive powers against melee attacks, and no range of her own, 4 Life 4 Defense doesn’t stay around for long most times. I’d like to bump her Defense to 5. WIth that, I think her points could probably come up to 170, or slightly higher if she tests higher, but I think it will make her more fun to play and bring her to a more thematically accurate power level.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #47  
Old January 6th, 2017, 08:12 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Initial Testing

As mentioned above, I'd like to tweak the glyph to make it weaker when drafted by other Vigilantes, so that it is not a must-draft. This is what I played with for the final game of that sheet:

Quote:
GLYPH OF UTILITY: FLASH BANG GRENADE
Before moving, you may destroy this glyph and choose a space within 4 spaces of this figure. All figures on or within 1 space of the chosen space are affected by this glyph. Until the end of the round, or until the next time you reveal an Order Marker, affected figures subtract 1 from their Move, Attack, and Defense numbers, or 2 if this figure is a Disciplined Vigilante.
This wouldn't change any of my results above either. Batwoman never really used the glyph from further than 3-4 spaces away, so the range boost was pretty minor.

".... the Cambridge ladies do not care, above
Cambridge if sometimes in its box of
sky lavender and cornerless, the
moon rattles like a fragment of angry candy"
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  #48  
Old January 7th, 2017, 01:29 PM
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Re: The Book of Batwoman - Initial Testing

5 defense seems like a good way to go since she does not have a melee defense power. Your other two changes are fine with me as well.

I would be against raising Bullet Proof Vest up to 3 or fewer, that would make her immune to lots of SAs that roll only 3 dice and would require guys with a normal attack of 3 to get boosted in some way to even have a chance to harm her at range. Bulletproof vests are more accurately bullet resistant, she would need an Iron Man type suit to become truly bullet proof and even then we allow people with hand guns damage an Iron Man suit in C3G.
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