Heroscapers
Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Competitive Armies Discussion Discuss, critique, and build ideas for tournament-caliber armies.


Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread Display Modes
  #205  
Old May 28th, 2010, 04:00 PM
kolakoski's Avatar
kolakoski kolakoski is offline
worthless thread clother
 
Join Date: July 15, 2008
Location: USA - NY - NYC
Posts: 4,613
Images: 3679
Blog Entries: 312
kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla kolakoski is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulp View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by kolakoski View Post
I like the Romans, too. I, of course, cannot bring myself to field th MBS, AE or 10th, but you might go with . . .
I used AE at GenCon a couple years ago.

I'll never field the AE in a competitive tournament again. Not only do you deal with games where they don't drop until late (if at all). When they do drop, you have to hope for initiative. If you don't get it, then you'll sometimes find yourself in situations where two have been killed in the first turn before you've even activated them.
Before I created the Valhalla Society, I used to field them fairly often. I did pretty well with them, but I was very careful about dropping them some distance away from the enemy, to take advantage of their range, treating their Grenade Special as a nice bonus, rather than their primary focus.

Reply With Quote
  #206  
Old May 28th, 2010, 04:03 PM
R˙chean's Avatar
R˙chean R˙chean is offline
GenCon 2014 Main Event Champ / Obsessive-Compulsive HS Storage Organizer
 
Join Date: May 9, 2006
Location: TX - Dallas
Posts: 7,295
Images: 89
Blog Entries: 10
R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth R˙chean is a man of the cloth
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

I used to feel the same way you do, Gulp, about the AE. However, I still played them for GenCon Champ event in 2007. It was pretty nerve racking, but I did pretty well that year.(2nd place) Mattser played the AE last year and he won.

In a Marcus lead army, you can drop the AE behind your main line. With Marcus boosting their move to 5, they are much more playable as a typical advancing squad. You don't have to drop them in a compromising position. Marcus gives some flexibility in how they can be played.

They are a gamble for sure, but so long as the rest of the army isn't a pile of crap, it can work. I believe that is the key: You have to play them with an army that can stand alone.

A must read for all 'Scapers!

Last edited by R˙chean; May 28th, 2010 at 04:08 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #207  
Old May 28th, 2010, 04:11 PM
killercactus's Avatar
killercactus killercactus is offline
The Guy That Thinks Runa is Good (and has actually won games with her)
 
Join Date: February 19, 2007
Location: OH - Austintown
Posts: 7,865
Images: 32
Blog Entries: 10
killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death! killercactus is hot lava death!
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post

They are a gamble for sure, but so long as the rest of the army isn't a pile of crap, it can work. I believe that is the key: You have to play them with an army that can stand alone.
Deathreavers help a lot, too, since they both prolong the game and take the fire away from the AE.

Like battle reports? Click Tourney Reports (New 10/21/2012 - Cutters / Brutes!)
KC's Maps
Click KC's Customs
Scaper of the Week #57
Reply With Quote
  #208  
Old May 28th, 2010, 04:30 PM
Gulp's Avatar
Gulp Gulp is offline
Good is Dumb
 
Join Date: March 11, 2008
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 2,039
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 3
Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
I used to feel the same way you do, Gulp, about the AE. However, I still played them for GenCon Champ event in 2007. It was pretty nerve racking, but I did pretty well that year.(2nd place) Mattser played the AE last year and he won.

In a Marcus lead army, you can drop the AE behind your main line. With Marcus boosting their move to 5, they are much more playable as a typical advancing squad. You don't have to drop them in a compromising position. Marcus gives some flexibility in how they can be played.

They are a gamble for sure, but so long as the rest of the army isn't a pile of crap, it can work. I believe that is the key: You have to play them with an army that can stand alone.
Interesting. I'm constantly amazed by how important having a critical grasp of a units functionality is key to really getting your points value. And I'm even more amazed at how often I THINK I have already achieved that grasp when the reality is much different than that.

Check out Gulp's Glyphs Not Worth Grabbing and Gulp's Abilities Not Worth Activating! Very Useful Thread: The Heroscape Library

"Heroscapers.com is not a charity site for the illiterate." -Gbob
Reply With Quote
  #209  
Old May 28th, 2010, 04:42 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 20,987
Images: 108
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulp View Post
I'll never field the AE in a competitive tournament again. Not only do you deal with games where they don't drop until late (if at all). When they do drop, you have to hope for initiative. If you don't get it, then you'll sometimes find yourself in situations where two have been killed in the first turn before you've even activated them.
If you drop them 12 hexes back, or behind a screen, that won't happen. There are times when you should play the AE in a high-risk, high-reward fashion, but not always.
Reply With Quote
  #210  
Old May 28th, 2010, 05:25 PM
yagyuninja's Avatar
yagyuninja yagyuninja is offline
 
Join Date: May 9, 2006
Location: OR - Eugene
Posts: 2,577
Images: 5
yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby! yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby! yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby! yagyuninja rolls all skulls baby!
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

The AE are fun but I definitely do not have the play experience to use them competitively. I'm not sure I've even used them since my RotV only days, to be honest.

Non-AE related...

I'm still waffling between a couple armies in my head for my 510 tourney tomorrow.

210 PK x3
120 Hydra
80 Raelin
100 Krav
510 - 15 hexes

I've play tested the PKs so much lately that I feel very comfortable with them. In this army I think they function to complement the powerhouses of their domains (hydra/melee, Krav/range) in a couple different ways. They can screen fairly effectively, and unlike rats they can do some damage if they need to. Braxas sucks though, and a fight against minions will be a hard fought battle.

210 Charos
120 Greenscales x2
100 Krav
80 Raelin
510 - 12 hexes

I've tested this a bit and I love the Greenroller. Maybe too light on lizards though, so I've also played:

210 Charos
180 Greenscales x3
120 Kaemon
510 - 12 hexes

But this lacks the Raelin/Krav that I cling to as a defense against the omnicron/taelord combo that I am almost guaranteed to see here in the northwest.

Last is this, which rolls so many dice every turn it is hard to resist. Again, hard against snipers and maybe other ranged commons? Not sure...

185 Nilfheim
120 Greenies x2
120 Hydra
80 Raelin
505 - 11 hexes

Actually, 2x Rats are probably better here than Raelin. Yeah, much better.

Last edited by yagyuninja; May 28th, 2010 at 06:33 PM. Reason: not enough lizards
Reply With Quote
  #211  
Old May 28th, 2010, 07:00 PM
Brownsfan82's Avatar
Brownsfan82 Brownsfan82 is offline
 
Join Date: March 9, 2008
Location: Louisville, KY
Posts: 430
Brownsfan82 knows what's in an order marker Brownsfan82 knows what's in an order marker Brownsfan82 knows what's in an order marker
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulp View Post
This might have already been pointed out, but Zelrig will probably be absent for most playtested armies at the championship. Only one of the maps at the championship has the classic 24-hex clumping, and that map has a lava field in it.
"Invasion" and "Jotun's Gap" both also have a 24-hexer startzone, although on Invasion they are too far apart for an OM-1 bomb. However, that's one of only two maps in the pool (Elswin Plateau being the other) where Zelrig can't OM-1 bomb. And there are several maps where Zelrig can hit a 7-hex area in the startzone from height, and then move and hit a different 7-hex cluster from height.

I don't think this is a bad map set for Zelrig at all!
Zelrig
Just a little story
I've found that trying to bomb a starting zone with Zelrig is very risky. It could pay off but it could kill the dragon without much benefit. 2 years ago I played Hendal and his 7StingersRaelin team on Fire Isle:
Perfect map for me, I could reach the 2nd or 3rd hex in his starting zone in one move. I won initiative. Yes! "Go in there Zelrig." I even found stingers without raelin's help in his starting zone. I rolled a BLANK! Next turn: 1 skull, 2 or 3 kills. THEN DEATH. This happened again in that tourney.

This doesn't always happen but:
In saying this Zelrig is still a solid figure to add to a team. But sacrificing him early isn't always smart. It might pay off, but even if i would have killed 7 stingers, thats less than 185 points worth of stingers.

I did get a risk reward against Damja at a michigan tourney when he had a omnicron sniper army. But I pulled Zelrig back when his team was more spread out.

Zelrig would be great for the main tournament if played right. I guess you could say that for a lot of figures though. I had more to say about Zelrig but forgot.

Airborne Elite
I agree with what has been said.

yagyuninja
I like your first army and the Charos army with 3 greenscales. Bonding with charos may be the new steamroller and with a good backup, hey why not? Krav, Raelin, and any screen is good.

In conclusion, I am really impressed with the quality of discussion in this thread.



Last edited by Brownsfan82; May 28th, 2010 at 07:05 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #212  
Old May 28th, 2010, 10:35 PM
Clarissimus's Avatar
Clarissimus Clarissimus is offline
 
Join Date: January 6, 2007
Location: IN - Fort Wayne
Posts: 992
Images: 4
Clarissimus wears ripped pants of awesomeness Clarissimus wears ripped pants of awesomeness Clarissimus wears ripped pants of awesomeness Clarissimus wears ripped pants of awesomeness Clarissimus wears ripped pants of awesomeness Clarissimus wears ripped pants of awesomeness
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
I am a Screw Day 2 Guy for sure . . . . My philosophy is to worry about getting there first and then deal with reinforcements.
I'm with you there. Getting to Day 2 is hard enough on its own. You have a have a solid army that you know forwards and backwards, know the mathcups and the maps, and maybe even a little luck to boost you into the championship.

I know I breathed a big sigh of relief when I sat down with a 3-1 record and faced a Gladiator army (I had Braxas).

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulp View Post
When [the Airborne Elite] drop, you have to hope for initiative. If you don't get it, then you'll sometimes find yourself in situations where two have been killed in the first turn before you've even activated them.
Sounds like you maybe need to set them back a little farther. Move 4 isn't much but with range 8 you should be able to drop them to a safe location.

I sometimes have the opposite problem; I'll win initiative after the drop and find that only 3 of my 4 guys can get in range to attack

I never lay awake at night wondering how to design an army that will help me win 40% of my games. -- Jexik

Do NOT click this link.
Reply With Quote
  #213  
Old May 28th, 2010, 11:28 PM
Acinonyx Acinonyx is offline
 
Join Date: December 13, 2007
Location: ME - Standish
Posts: 55
Acinonyx has disabled reputation
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

I wanted to give thanks to the people here recommending being less Raelin dependent. I switched her out for two squads of repulsors with my minion army and it worked great. Even when my opponent didn't have rats, they worked pretty well grabbing glyphs and the damage they managed to do was gravy. Anything that draws fire away from the minions is a good thing.
I still haven't figured out how to take out stupid Captain America reliably with this army, but I guess that's not a worry for those of you able to get to Gencon! His special attack is sooo brutal. My friend was playing 2x 10th, Marcus, Cap and Theracus. It is pretty hard to keep Cap off the high ground when he brings a flying horse.
Reply With Quote
  #214  
Old May 28th, 2010, 11:46 PM
Gulp's Avatar
Gulp Gulp is offline
Good is Dumb
 
Join Date: March 11, 2008
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 2,039
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 3
Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Gulp View Post
This might have already been pointed out, but Zelrig will probably be absent for most playtested armies at the championship. Only one of the maps at the championship has the classic 24-hex clumping, and that map has a lava field in it.
"Invasion" and "Jotun's Gap" both also have a 24-hexer startzone, although on Invasion they are too far apart for an OM-1 bomb. However, that's one of only two maps in the pool (Elswin Plateau being the other) where Zelrig can't OM-1 bomb. And there are several maps where Zelrig can hit a 7-hex area in the startzone from height, and then move and hit a different 7-hex cluster from height.

I don't think this is a bad map set for Zelrig at all!

I was specifically referring to maps in the championship.


You're right. I forgot Invasion. Though as you said, you can't 1-OM bomb it, and this gets even worse if you lose initiative. Jotun's Gap also works, but from what I understand it is not going to be used in the championship.

Another thing I just noticed too. On Rift Valley, if you have Zelrig, you better hope you can avoid placing the remaining figures on the lava field because if you do, then you will have to choose between getting a couple good Zelrig shots (and getting him out of danger from the approaching units) or leaving your common squads sitting on the lava field for end of round burning.

EDIT: Hiding my noob.

Check out Gulp's Glyphs Not Worth Grabbing and Gulp's Abilities Not Worth Activating! Very Useful Thread: The Heroscape Library

"Heroscapers.com is not a charity site for the illiterate." -Gbob

Last edited by Gulp; May 28th, 2010 at 11:58 PM.
Reply With Quote
  #215  
Old May 28th, 2010, 11:51 PM
dok's Avatar
dok dok is offline
GenCon Main Event Champion - 2010, 2011, & 2017
 
Join Date: October 9, 2008
Location: USA - CO - Denver
Posts: 20,987
Images: 108
Blog Entries: 17
dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth dok is a man of the cloth
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Every map is used in the championship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
The large events (Championship, Heat of Battle, and Generals Wars) will use all 10 maps.
Reply With Quote
  #216  
Old May 28th, 2010, 11:56 PM
Gulp's Avatar
Gulp Gulp is offline
Good is Dumb
 
Join Date: March 11, 2008
Location: New Albany, IN
Posts: 2,039
Images: 5
Blog Entries: 3
Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla Gulp is inducted into the Halls of Valhalla
Re: Gen Con 2010 Main Event Armies

Quote:
Originally Posted by dok View Post
Every map is used in the championship.
Quote:
Originally Posted by R˙chean View Post
The large events (Championship, Heat of Battle, and Generals Wars) will use all 10 maps.
Yeah, yeah. Rub it in. I'm a noob.

Stay tuned for the tomorrow's episode of Gulp Makes a Fool of Himself called "Special Attacks Get A Height Bonus".

Check out Gulp's Glyphs Not Worth Grabbing and Gulp's Abilities Not Worth Activating! Very Useful Thread: The Heroscape Library

"Heroscapers.com is not a charity site for the illiterate." -Gbob
Reply With Quote
Reply

Go Back   Heroscapers > Official Classic HeroScape > Competitive Armies Discussion
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Who is the best Gencon Main Event Player? lonewolf Gen Con 73 August 21st, 2016 10:58 AM
Main event armies dok Competitive Armies Discussion 331 July 27th, 2015 01:17 AM
Gen Con Main Event Unit Predictions Devil's Advocate HeroScape General Discussion 86 August 17th, 2009 01:59 PM
Decide Brownsfan's Main Event Army Brownsfan82 Gen Con 25 July 10th, 2009 11:47 PM
Should Marvel be allowed in the GenCon Main Event Devil's Advocate HeroScape General Discussion 185 June 24th, 2009 10:30 PM


All times are GMT -4. The time now is 10:08 PM.

Heroscape background footer

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8
Copyright ©2000 - 2018, vBulletin Solutions, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Lite) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2018 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.