The Book of Doctor Doom (Sorcerer)

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Sure, but do the algebra: that doesn’t answer whether swapping = modification or not.

For sure, I was more just ruminating.

By the logic that was used during the re-roll debate, re-rolls don't count as modification, because they are not adding/subtracting dice, adding/subtracting auto-skulls, etc. They are merely allowing you to achieve a result that was always possible, through the method of giving you a second chance at rolling the dice.

By that logic, I do think swaps fall under the same category as re-rolls, and would not be 'modifying.'

[Ronin]

I'd rule that re-rolls are modifying a roll too.

I see the semantic argument about how allowing a re-roll isn't modifying the SA. But you're absolutely for sure changing the actual roll.

[MrNobody]

Originally Posted by Ronin

I'd rule that re-rolls are modifying a roll too.

I see the semantic argument about how allowing a re-roll isn't modifying the SA. But you're absolutely for sure changing the actual roll.

I agreed with you back then, but that was definitely the line we drew in the sand when it came to soft-breaking the "SAs can't be modified" rule.

Originally Posted by IAmBatman

Yeah, that's how I see it. He's not adding/subtracting from the roll, he's just forcing you to redo it.

(And yeah, the standard argument about "powers can always break rules.")

[Lord Pyre]

Originally Posted by MrNobody

I agreed with you back then, but that was definitely the line we drew in the sand when it came to soft-breaking the "SAs can't be modified" rule.

Adding dice to SAs gets real messy real quick. They're balanced around a certain number of dice used, and then there are some that give you a dice pool to roll with multiple times. Doesn't work cleanly. Rerolls don't change the actual mechanics of SAs, just gives you a do-over. So even though you're totally changing the roll, you're not modifying the SA itself, or changing how it works. If that makes sense.

[IAmBatman]

Because of the hard "no modifying special attacks rule," I'll agree that a reroll isn't "modifying" and that we've firmly established that precedent at this point.

[Ronin]

I think that's a bad definition of modification and we'd be better served by admitting we're not following the "no SA modification" bit.

[IAmBatman]

"No SA modification" isn't a sacred cow for me, so you won't hear argument from me. I'm just acknowledging the current reality of our precedent. If the Heroes want to change that, I'm not opposed.