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  #21013  
Old March 7th, 2019, 01:39 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

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Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
I don't pay attention to reviews for the most part and especially for Captain Marvel.

There have been a lot of dudes with their panties in a bunch about a couple things. They don't like a woman having top billing, and be so ubber powerful as to steal their man crush hereos in Avengers End Game. And/or they don't like Brie Larson speaking up for equality and diversity.

Some losers were going nuts in making the Rotten Tomato score for Captain Marvel so low before it even came out. Rotten Tomatoes had to adjust some things to compensate.

Do I expect this movie to be Captain America Civil War, Black Panther or Infinity War? No. But I expect it to be a fun movie to watch. Heck, my daughters and I love the heck out of Ant-Man, as well as Ant-Man and Wasp. We don't care what critics say, we like what we like.
Okay I'm a bit worried about damaging my reputation around here, but it's something I want to get off my chest.

I've been keeping an eye on these so-called "culture wars" for a while now, pretty much ever since Gamergate. Not because I'm invested in one side or anything, but mainly just because I enjoy watching drama. I guess it's my reality TV. I'm very much on the fence and wouldn't consider myself on the "troll" side at all but I want to play devil's advocate to a few of your points.

I've always not found the "they hate women getting the top billing" angle convincing, considering Wonder Woman came out 2 years ago to far far less vitriol. I think there's clearly something different about Captain Marvel. I think a large part of it is that these people don't like being confronted by social politics in their entertainment. I honestly can't make up my mind if that's a fair thing to want.

I see less worry that CM is going to be stronger than the male heroes, and more that she's going to steal the spotlight in Endgame. And I think if that happened then yeah, I would be upset. Endgame is supposed to be the big finale for these MCU characters that we've spent an upwards of 10 years with. It's sounding like it might even be the final hurrah for some of them. I just think the focus should be on those original characters we started with and not on a new character that just showed up, because we'll have all of Phase 4 and onward to let her do her thing. However, I have complete faith in the Russo brothers to pull it off in a satisfying way, so I'm not really worried.

I personally think the vitriol against Larson for things she's said in her personal life is a bit much. She's basically just called for a wider spread of voices in both entertainment and professional criticism of that entertainment, which is something I generally agree with. I guess you could say she's been a bit hostile with the way she's gone about it, ("I don't need a white dude to tell me what didn't work [about A Wrinkle In Time]. It wasn't made for him!") but I don't think it's at all worth the vitriol she's been given.

The Rotten Tomatoes fiasco is something that I thing has been purposely misrepresented. Nobody messed with the film's review score because they couldn't do that until the movie came out. What did happen is people using a function on the site to state they didn't want to see the movie. No bad reviews, no nasty comments, they just said they didn't want to see the movie. (Although I will guarantee some people were using multiple accounts to manipulate the vote, which I do think is a bit pathetic) Rotten Tomatoes' finely tuned response to the situation was just to remove the "Want To See" function from their site completely, and to be honest that doesn't sit right with me. I think taking away an audience's ability to express their opinion (in a non-violent, non-hurtful way) is only going to serve to polarize them further. Sure, some people are going to do some vote manipulations every once in a while, but that's just life.

If your family loves the movie, more power to you! I try to make it a point to never criticize somebody else for enjoying a piece of media. I probably won't watch it in theaters because I don't see a lot of the "secondary" Marvel movies in theaters anymore, but I'll be sure to catch it at some point. I've more or less found some entertainment in every Marvel movie released so far (Thor 2 is the exception), and I expect this one will be no different.
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  #21014  
Old March 7th, 2019, 01:47 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Barring getting into space battles with vehicles what essential characters is this list missing?

Luke
Han
Leia
Obi
Yoda
Lando
C3PO
R2D2
Darth Vader
Emperor Palpatine
Jabba the Hutt
Boba Fett
Ewoks
Storm Troopers
Rebel Fighters
Mon Mothma
The General (can't think of his name)
Cloud City Guards
Royal Guards
Imperial Pilots
Imperial Engineers

I think that would about cover the basic trilogy.

{Edit} oh and Wickett, Lograu, and the Ewoks. Plus you really should add in Trask and several Bounty Hunters.
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  #21015  
Old March 7th, 2019, 01:52 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

I feel like Jabba would really want some generics to boss around if he didn't have more of the named bounty hunters.

The prequels are, of course, the prequels, but I do think there are a lot of good or at least mechanically interesting characters there, and in the new movies. And in EU stuff. I'm actually thinking of some of the characters native to Star Wars comics, like characters from the Knights of the Old Republic comics or the second run of Star Wars Legacy (or I guess the first run of Star Wars Legacy, but I liked the second volume with the Gabriel Hardman art a lot better).

I know "EU stuff" is pretty far down the rabbit hole, but I do think having more comics-based characters and playing up Star Wars' comics history would actually a lot better justify having that world represented. That's a big part of why I wanted to design Hack/Slash stuff - I felt like it created more of a comic-y bridge between the superheroes and the slashers.

The OT characters are definitely the biggest/most important characters, but I think it would be hard for me to stop with that and feel like that was a good and complete representation of the franchise.
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  #21016  
Old March 7th, 2019, 01:56 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ronin View Post
I feel like Jabba would really want some generics to boss around if he didn't have more of the named bounty hunters.

The prequels are, of course, the prequels, but I do think there are a lot of good or at least mechanically interesting characters there, and in the new movies. And in EU stuff. I'm actually thinking of some of the characters native to Star Wars comics, like characters from the Knights of the Old Republic comics or the second run of Star Wars Legacy (or I guess the first run of Star Wars Legacy, but I liked the second volume with the Gabriel Hardman art a lot better).

I know "EU stuff" is pretty far down the rabbit hole, but I do think having more comics-based characters and playing up Star Wars' comics history would actually a lot better justify having that world represented. That's a big part of why I wanted to design Hack/Slash stuff - I felt like it created more of a comic-y bridge between the superheroes and the slashers.

The OT characters are definitely the biggest/most important characters, but I think it would be hard for me to stop with that and feel like that was a good and complete representation of the franchise.
This is my stance on it as well. In fact, the move to be more consistent with Classic is a lot of why I originally stepped down in HoSS. My interest just isn't with classic, but I LOVE the Star Wars universe. Also I had just become a hero the first time so I had more duties here.
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  #21017  
Old March 7th, 2019, 01:58 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

I’d be interested in seeing an even mix of OT, prequel, and new trilogy characters than I would be in a deeper dive into the OT pool. Maybe that’s just because HoSS has already dived pretty deep into OT stuff.

I think a focus on comic stuff could be cool too. I know Marvel has made at least one new one (Doctor Aphra or something like that?) and I feel it would help set the C3G work apart from the HoSS stuff.
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  #21018  
Old March 7th, 2019, 02:09 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
I don't pay attention to reviews for the most part and especially for Captain Marvel.

There have been a lot of dudes with their panties in a bunch about a couple things. They don't like a woman having top billing, and be so ubber powerful as to steal their man crush hereos in Avengers End Game. And/or they don't like Brie Larson speaking up for equality and diversity.

Some losers were going nuts in making the Rotten Tomato score for Captain Marvel so low before it even came out. Rotten Tomatoes had to adjust some things to compensate.

Do I expect this movie to be Captain America Civil War, Black Panther or Infinity War? No. But I expect it to be a fun movie to watch. Heck, my daughters and I love the heck out of Ant-Man, as well as Ant-Man and Wasp. We don't care what critics say, we like what we like.
Okay I'm a bit worried about damaging my reputation around here, but it's something I want to get off my chest.

I've been keeping an eye on these so-called "culture wars" for a while now, pretty much ever since Gamergate. Not because I'm invested in one side or anything, but mainly just because I enjoy watching drama. I guess it's my reality TV. I'm very much on the fence and wouldn't consider myself on the "troll" side at all but I want to play devil's advocate to a few of your points.

I've always not found the "they hate women getting the top billing" angle convincing, considering Wonder Woman came out 2 years ago to far far less vitriol. I think there's clearly something different about Captain Marvel. I think a large part of it is that these people don't like being confronted by social politics in their entertainment. I honestly can't make up my mind if that's a fair thing to want.

I see less worry that CM is going to be stronger than the male heroes, and more that she's going to steal the spotlight in Endgame. And I think if that happened then yeah, I would be upset. Endgame is supposed to be the big finale for these MCU characters that we've spent an upwards of 10 years with. It's sounding like it might even be the final hurrah for some of them. I just think the focus should be on those original characters we started with and not on a new character that just showed up, because we'll have all of Phase 4 and onward to let her do her thing. However, I have complete faith in the Russo brothers to pull it off in a satisfying way, so I'm not really worried.

I personally think the vitriol against Larson for things she's said in her personal life is a bit much. She's basically just called for a wider spread of voices in both entertainment and professional criticism of that entertainment, which is something I generally agree with. I guess you could say she's been a bit hostile with the way she's gone about it, ("I don't need a white dude to tell me what didn't work [about A Wrinkle In Time]. It wasn't made for him!") but I don't think it's at all worth the vitriol she's been given.

The Rotten Tomatoes fiasco is something that I thing has been purposely misrepresented. Nobody messed with the film's review score because they couldn't do that until the movie came out. What did happen is people using a function on the site to state they didn't want to see the movie. No bad reviews, no nasty comments, they just said they didn't want to see the movie. (Although I will guarantee some people were using multiple accounts to manipulate the vote, which I do think is a bit pathetic) Rotten Tomatoes' finely tuned response to the situation was just to remove the "Want To See" function from their site completely, and to be honest that doesn't sit right with me. I think taking away an audience's ability to express their opinion (in a non-violent, non-hurtful way) is only going to serve to polarize them further. Sure, some people are going to do some vote manipulations every once in a while, but that's just life.

If your family loves the movie, more power to you! I try to make it a point to never criticize somebody else for enjoying a piece of media. I probably won't watch it in theaters because I don't see a lot of the "secondary" Marvel movies in theaters anymore, but I'll be sure to catch it at some point. I've more or less found some entertainment in every Marvel movie released so far (Thor 2 is the exception), and I expect this one will be no different.

Didn't something similar happen to one of the most recent Star Wars movies?

Here the thing, when I have continuously gotten news feeds from different comic or movie places I have looked at occasionally, and it's all negative about Captain Marvel, I have to wonder.

Just because Brie Larson has an opinion about diversity and fair pay etc, that should be separate from the movie itself when people comment about the actual movie.

That's all I'm saying. Someone can disagree with Brie Larson's social stances, so dislike her. If people can't separate the 2, then that's their issue and not the issue with the actual movie.

There have been plenty of jerk actors and actresses over the years, same with musicians and athletes. I'm not saying Larson is a jerk, but saying that it seems odd that someone would hate a band's music or hate an entire sports franchise based on one person involved.

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  #21019  
Old March 7th, 2019, 02:13 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
I’d be interested in seeing an even mix of OT, prequel, and new trilogy characters than I would be in a deeper dive into the OT pool. Maybe that’s just because HoSS has already dived pretty deep into OT stuff.

I think a focus on comic stuff could be cool too. I know Marvel has made at least one new one (Doctor Aphra or something like that?) and I feel it would help set the C3G work apart from the HoSS stuff.
EU Star wars would definitely be more secondary for me. There's just so much to get covered just in the basic 3 let alone adding in the prequels or (less to my liking) the sequels.

I also forgot to mention the Sandpeople earlier.
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  #21020  
Old March 7th, 2019, 02:25 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

Quote:
Originally Posted by Hahma View Post
Didn't something similar happen to one of the most recent Star Wars movies?

Here the thing, when I have continuously gotten news feeds from different comic or movie places I have looked at occasionally, and it's all negative about Captain Marvel, I have to wonder.

Just because Brie Larson has an opinion about diversity and fair pay etc, that should be separate from the movie itself when people comment about the actual movie.

That's all I'm saying. Someone can disagree with Brie Larson's social stances, so dislike her. If people can't separate the 2, then that's their issue and not the issue with the actual movie.

There have been plenty of jerk actors and actresses over the years, same with musicians and athletes. I'm not saying Larson is a jerk, but saying that it seems odd that someone would hate a band's music or hate an entire sports franchise based on one person involved.
That's a stance I can get behind for sure. I think separation of art from artist is important. I also feel like Larson has gotten far more attention/hate for her comments than her male costars like Chris Evans or Mark Ruffalo.
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  #21021  
Old March 7th, 2019, 02:52 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

Larson getting called out for being "too loud" with her opinions is baffling when you have guys like Don Cheadle and Mark Ruffalo, who are both VERY vocal about their politics, not getting any heat.

Captain Marvel is probably going to be pretty eh, but that's because it's an MCU origin story and they've been iffy for a while. The fact it's not getting a Black Panther level of universal praise means it's easy for the knives to come out from dishonest actors.
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  #21022  
Old March 7th, 2019, 02:59 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

I’ve heard Mark Ruffalo get called out a handful of times on conservative media.
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  #21023  
Old March 7th, 2019, 03:11 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

I guess I didn't really notice all the internet trolls and their opinions on a movie they haven't seen yet. Why people listen to or care about the loudest 3% of America mystifies me. I've been excited about seeing Capt. Marvel and it wasn't a let down in anyway. Capt. Marvel and Fury had good chemistry on screen and the Fantasy/Sci-Fi fanboys and girls grew up on strong female characters (Red Sonya, Ripley from Aliens, etc.). It's Hollywood proper that is just now catching up to the 'geeks' they looked down on for decades and realized every woman in their movies doesn't need to be the secretary or a helpless love interests prop for male leads.
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  #21024  
Old March 7th, 2019, 03:16 PM
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Re: The C3G Cave - Hangout

"Ripley!"
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