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  #13  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:04 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

In terms of estimates, the projected points seem pretty spot on for what you have written up (I got 305 on the calculator).

I worry slightly about the first power being abused in non-Royal Flush Gang builds, so that's something we'll have to suss out and think through. Being required to take a turn with the Aristocrat helps at least, though it's not like this guy is hurting for offense. Being able to put OM1 on him lets you put OM2, 3, and X on anyone else at the start of the round to do shenanigans like Reorganized Chaos, Oracle's OM boost, etc., at no real cost to you. Obviously we have other figures that do this, but it's typically a powerful effect when fully exploited and I'm uncertain if it'll lead to the types of army builds that are really desirable here.

The second power, Ace Up the Sleeve, will be tough to properly cost/test without the rest of the faction, so that could swing things post final editing, depending on its strength. "Resetting" an Order Marker would definitely be a new term, but I'm not sure we have any precedent and I at least clearly follow the mechanical intent, so it might be the right term for the job.

Thematically it seems a bit strange for Durable Armor to be tougher than Magical Defense. I wonder if there's another power that might be reusable there that isn't quite so daunting?

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  #14  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:09 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

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Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
I'm not sure if any of our current Androids, Kings, or Queens use the X marker, but it opens up some future design space if nothing else.
Current Androids are:

Red Tornado, Doombot, Sentinel, Killer Penguins, Nimrod, Master Mold, Manhunter (Uncommon), Arnim Zola, Amazo, Mechanical Constructs, Robot, Human Torch (Jim Hammond), Human Robot, Vision (Jonas), Jocasta, Vision (Victor Shade), ULTRON, Awesome Android, Dragon Man, Rover

Current Kings are:

Black Panther, Aquaman (I), Sub-Mariner, Laufey, Odin, Black Bolt, Solovar

Current Queens are:

Mera, Maxima

Not sure how many "X" powers there are in there, but I feel like at least the Android list has maybe a couple?

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  #15  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:10 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

1 shield defense limits wounds received to 1 as long as a shield is rolled. At 5 def. dice you would be getting 1 shield most of the time, but then someone who can reduce def. dice like Wolverine would be a good counter as he'd be more likely to get that def. whiff and deal multiple wounds per attack.
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  #16  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:14 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

Another aspect of that approach is that you could make King and King instead of an Aristocrat, same for Queen, then maybe someone drafts King into an army that has King Synergy. I know at one point we talked about having some King related powers. Black Bolt's brother would try to over throw Kings, stuff like that.
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  #17  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:19 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

If you are worried about this power, you could limit who the OM's are moved to and from to only Aristocrats, Kings, & Queens (maybe Androids too?).

RESHUFFLE THE DECK
Before taking a turn with any Aristocrat, King, or Queen Unique Hero you control, you may re-arrange any unrevealed order markers on any Aristocrat, King, or Queen Unique Heroes you control.

So when you just draft the 5 of them together it works flawlessly, but if you draft him with Ozy you can't move the OM's off Ozy's card. Lets him team up with Aquaman & Mera though if you wanted too and be a useful addition.
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  #18  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:23 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

I think closing it like that can at least make it easier to keep an eye on its impact on the metagame and shut off a lot of the worst exploits.

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  #19  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

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Originally Posted by japes View Post
Just for context, There is also versions of Doctor Doom that in the comics has taken on the whole Fantastic Four on his own but that doesn't justify us making base Doctor Doom 1000 points.

So with that I'm going off of the "just because they did it one time in the comics" doesn't equate what they should normally do.

The top of that, I think it would be awesome to have another tight grouped army in the 800 point slot. And realistically it will let them get played a ton more than another 1000 point army. 2 vs 2 800 point per person (1600 per team) is a goto for us when we have 4. It's a nice point where you aren't too crazy big but enough points to create a decent army.
Not quite the same thing. You're trying to say that different writers have different ideas of what Doom is capable of doing. With each rendition of the Royal Flush Gang there are completely different characters being each of the positions (Ace, King, Queen, Jack and Ten).

I think my main concern for dropping their cost is that they should be a mild threat to the Justice League. They can never really hold their own against them, but be a mild threat.

To that end, taking the core 7 of Batman, Superman, Wonder Woman, Flash, Aquaman, Green Lantern and Martian Manhunter and using only the lowest cost of 5 members I come up with 1280 (thats 200 Batman, 300 Wonderwoman, 250 Flash, 230 Aquaman and 300 Martian Manhunter). Clearly they should be able to easily dispatch a 1000 point team as they beat them by about 25%.

I just don't want a team of 5 members meant to fight the justice league basically fighting Superman and Green Lantern. And I'm a little nervous that's whats going to happen. But again, if the majority feel they are not up to that level, then so be it.

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  #20  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Yodaking View Post
If you are worried about this power, you could limit who the OM's are moved to and from to only Aristocrats, Kings, & Queens (maybe Androids too?).

RESHUFFLE THE DECK
Before taking a turn with any Aristocrat, King, or Queen Unique Hero you control, you may re-arrange any unrevealed order markers on any Aristocrat, King, or Queen Unique Heroes you control.

So when you just draft the 5 of them together it works flawlessly, but if you draft him with Ozy you can't move the OM's off Ozy's card. Lets him team up with Aquaman & Mera though if you wanted too and be a useful addition.

I like where this is going.

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  #21  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:51 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

Points scales are always a bit shifty in this game. Like obviously, in the comics, Spidey is usually able to repel the entire Sinister 6. In game? He probably loses to Ock and Kraven. Darkseid is often able to hold his own against the JL as well, but even our proposed Event version is only 900 points. Basically the same deal for Thanos, where even our big “take on the whole Marvel Universe” version is only 1200.

I honestly just say get the characters where they feel generally “on point” individually, then work from there to get the whole team where they should be. Does Ace (or at least this specific version of Ace) feel right being around equal to Wolverine, Deadpool, and some of the weaker GLs? Would he be a match for the Thing (I), who is a similar “bruiser but with lots of factional support power” type?
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  #22  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

Or to stick in the JLA: should he be able to take on Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter one-on-one?

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  #23  
Old April 25th, 2020, 04:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

Quote:
Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Points scales are always a bit shifty in this game. Like obviously, in the comics, Spidey is usually able to repel the entire Sinister 6. In game? He probably loses to Ock and Kraven. Darkseid is often able to hold his own against the JL as well, but even our proposed Event version is only 900 points. Basically the same deal for Thanos, where even our big “take on the whole Marvel Universe” version is only 1200.

I honestly just say get the characters where they feel generally “on point” individually, then work from there to get the whole team where they should be. Does Ace (or at least this specific version of Ace) feel right being around equal to Wolverine, Deadpool, and some of the weaker GLs?
That is tough to answer. This version based on the Justice League of America comics actually did very little, except to oversee and direct the Royal Flush Gang. He sent out Ten, Jack, Queen and King to attack the Justice League and only interacted directly at the very end (dispatching Black Canary) but, in the end, was destroyed by Black Canarys cry after being betrayed by Jack.

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Old April 25th, 2020, 04:56 PM
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Re: The Book of Ace (Breathing Period)

Quote:
Originally Posted by IAmBatman View Post
Or to stick in the JLA: should he be able to take on Wonder Woman or Martian Manhunter one-on-one?
In those comics King attacked Wonder Woman one on one and defeated her.

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