The Book of Silver Surfer

[IAmBatman]

I'm going to run some informal tests against Hasbro Hulk and some mid-level heroes and see if I think we should drop the ranged only requirement on power transference as well.

[Hahma]

Cool

[IAmBatman]

Heh, I ran them and I just figured out how to play him basically! And he's naaasty ... but not because of Energy Transmutation. I think his ability to kite might be a tad too much right now (he won 2 of 3 against Hulk with the 2 wins where he had 3 and 4 wounds and the loss where Hulk had 7 wounds, then he beat Cyclops and Jean Grey with no wounds in either match. He only healed 2 wounds total in the 5 matches - 1 against Hulk and 1 against Cyclops and Jean). The biggest thing I'm going to change is making his Cosmic Speed only a 2 space bonus. Getting to do it when rolling attack dice and when rolling defense dice really lets him kite. He can max out his range of 6, then move 4 away, then cancel out any chances of a second attack by moving 4 away again. It's too much. I also want to look at the Power Cosmic ... I might restrict it to only letting you add shields versus normal attacks or something to somehow give mid-level heroes a chance. The biggest thing he's doing right now, though, is wiping them out in single attacks by burning all of his Order Markers for auto skulls. I could put a cap on this, but it's what's keeping him in the game against other heavy hitters.
I'm going to continue to think about and tweak this guy, but the Cosmic Speed change is the first thing.
Oh, and also, even though it hasn't really come into play yet at all, I'm going to cap the healing at 1, just because I'm scared of what will happen if it ever does trigger for multiple wound healing.

[IAmBatman]

Crap, and I just realized I was playing him with range 6 instead of 5. Playing that right should help some too. If he's still feeling like too much next time I play him, I might experiment with lowering either his attack by 1, his defense by 1, or both.

[IAmBatman]

The changes in the OP worked out really well. Jean Grey and Cyclops went up against Silver Surfer and won a really close one (I think Surfer will win that one more than he'll lose it) with Cyclops with 1 life left winning Turn 2, Round 2. I think the design is probably where it needs to be for the initial now.
I'm going to send it out to the ERB.

[tcglkn]

Cool, glad you got some rough testing in on him.

[IAmBatman]

Yep. I didn't feel like doing any army tests tonight, so I got his Heavy Hitters done. I'm going to hold off on the rest of it until I get some work in on the Christmas Package, though.

[IAmBatman]

C3G INITIAL PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE TEST UNIT (SILVER SURFER)

- THEME TEST/ Check to see if there are any powers or stats on the test unit card that does not accurately reflect the theme or likeness of what the character would and could do. Also consider destructible objects, and whether or not this characters powers should affect them.
PASS

- MIRROR TEST/ Check to see if the unit were played against itself, if there would be any loops that would upset the balance of the Game.
PASS (you could have really quick rounds!)

- BONDING TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing Bonding abilities to make sure there are no continual Bonding possibilities that do not stop appropriately or do not stop at all. This is to prevent loops in Bonding.
PASS

- SYNERGIES TEST/ Compare the unit card with all possible currently existing synergies to make sure there are no factors that could break the game by making any unit to powerful or too weak.
PASS

- POWER CHECK/ Consider the test unit and all existing units and all glyphs to compare to and check for any powers that could be over amplified and break the game. Each power must define when it takes place, who or what it affects, and What are the stipulations on the power if there are any.
PASS

- FUN TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play.
PASS

- FUN COMPETITIVE TEST/ Consider whether or not the design was fun to play against.
PASS

- DRAFTING TEST/ Consider whether or not this design is worth drafting.
PASS

- USAGE TEST/ Consider whether or not all of the powers on this card were used or at least usable.
PASS

- STRATEGY TEST/ Consider whether or not the design offers any real strategy or interesting tactics to the overall game.
PASS

Heavy Hitter or Mid-Level Hero Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 400-420
- Give a brief overview. Surfer is all or nothing, but his all is really brutal! Thor was the only one who consistently handed it to him. He felt closest against Superman in the final match.

Spoiler Alert!

TEST 1
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Hulk (Hasbro)
Surfer’s mobility was great for getting height advantage on attacks and keeping Hulk subtracting dice due to Super Leap. He blew his whole round for a huge attack from height which ended up putting 7 wounds on Hulk.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Silver Surfer wins Round 1, Turn 3 with 3 wounds.

TEST 2
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Hulk (Hasbro)
Hulk wins a narrow one when Surfer can’t close the deal and Hulk has 10 dice to attack with.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Hulk wins Round 2, Turn 2 with 7 wounds.

TEST 3
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Hulk (Hasbro)
Surfer again blew his whole round here in the third round for an attack that put 6 wounds on Hulk. Surfer only healed one wound – this is the first time he healed any wounds against Hulk.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Silver Surfer wins Round 2, Turn 1 with 4 wounds.


The following came after changes were made to Cosmic Speed:

TEST 4
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Cyclops and Jean Grey (370)
Surfer burned a round tearing through Jean Grey, but Cyclops caught up to him in Round 2, thanks to Cyclops having the long range to rope him in.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Cyclops wins Turn 2, Round 2 with 1 life remaining.

TEST 5
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Cyclops and Jean Grey (370)
Silver Surfer tried selling out on offense again here in Round 1, trying to take out Jean Grey on his first attack from height (turn 2), and he rolled 5 skulls (including the 2 auto skulls) but Jean Grey blocked 3 of the skulls and survived with 2 life left. Then she and Cyclops attacked together for two turns in a row and Surfer rolled poorly on defense, unable to kite enough to avoid the attacks, and unable to add any auto shields.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Cyclops and Jean Grey win Turn 3, Round 1 with 2 life left for Jean Grey and full life for Cyclops.

TEST 6
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Cyclops and Jean Grey (370)
I played this a bit more conservatively, only adding one skull at a time with Power Cosmic. He managed to wipe out Cyclops’ round early in Round 1, then finish off Jean Grey in Round 2.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Silver Surfer wins Turn 2, Round 2 with no Order Markers left for the round and 2 wounds.

TEST 7
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Thor
In the first game, Silver Surfer sold out on his attack from height, burning OM 3 and his X, but only had 4 skulls total to work with. Thor laughed it off, rolling 4 shields, then tried God of Thunderstrike, failed, then hit Silver Surfer from height for an adjacent attack and rolled 7 skulls, wiping Surfer out in one attack (Surfer only rolled on shield).

In the second game, Surfer held up a little better defensively, but didn’t have the opportunity for many solid attacks, while Thor’s melee attack was just nasty against him.

In the third game, Silver Surfer still couldn’t roll well while Thor’s 8/8 stats were just devastating to him. Thor finished by hitting a successful God of Thunderstrike roll to put the final 2 wounds on Surfer.

Who won and how many wounds did they have? Game 1: Thor wins with no wounds, Turn 3, Round 1.

Game 2: Thor wins with 4 wounds, Turn 1, Round 2.

Game 3: Thor wins with 3 wounds, Turn 3, Round 1.

TEST 8
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Darkseid
Silver Surfer sold out on attacks in Rounds 1 and 2 and they paid off, putting 4 wounds on Darkseid the first time, and the last 2 on him the second time. In the middle, Darkseid rolled 3 skulls for his special attack, which Surfer blocked, putting one wound back on Darkseid, then Darkseid engaged, but only rolled one skull for his normal attack.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Silver Surfer wins with no wounds on Turn 1 of Round 2 with no Order Markers left.

TEST 9
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer vs. Graviton
Silver Surfer sells out at the top of both rounds, putting 5 wounds on Graviton with his first attack, despite the auto shield for Graviton, and finishing him off with a nasty attack at the start of Round 2, again despite the auto shield. Graviton couldn’t decide whether to use his normal attack or his throw, and neither were effective enough. Had Surfer rolled more poorly, Graviton would have had a chance here.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Silver Surfer wins Turn 1, Round 2 with 3 wounds and no Order Markers left.

TEST 10
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer versus Superman
Silver Surfer sells out on his attack at the start of Rounds 1 and 2, and survives 7 and 5 skull attacks from Superman on defense (Superman survived two 7 skull attacks from Surfer). Then Superman put the final wounds on Surfer with a 3 skull attack in Round 2.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Superman wins Turn 1, Round 2 with 1 life left.

And, just for fun …

TEST 11
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer versus Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Human Torch (Johnny), Thing (1,000)
Silver Surfer almost took Mister Fantastic out on his first turn of Round 1, derailing the Fan Four for good, but Mister Fantastic only took 3 wounds from Surfer’s full tilt attack and then rolled well the rest of the round to help pile wounds on Surfer. Then the Fan Four won initiative and Thing with a +3 to his attack forced Surfer to burn all of his Order Markers to survive. Then Invisible Woman got height and put the last wound on Surfer.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? The Fan Four win on Turn 2, Round 2 with 3 wounds on Mister Fantastic and everyone else full life.

_____________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 400
- Give a brief overview. Surfer definitely felt like he had a chance. His old version of Cosmic Speed would have given him an easy victory here, but without that level of kiting ability, the HYDRA Agents managed to shoot at him often enough to get it done.
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer (400) vs. HYDRA Agents x5 (400)

Spoiler Alert!

Silver Surfer healed 2 wounds and gave the HYDRA Agents a scare, but he’s not impervious to attrition.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? HYDRA Agents win Turn 1, Round 7 with 7 HYDRA Agents left.

_____________________________________________________________

Squad Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 400
- Give a brief overview. Surfer threatened here, but couldn’t overcome the superior numbers.
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer (400) vs. Skrull Warriors x4 (440)

Spoiler Alert!

The big threat ranges and strong attack stats of the Skrull Warriors forced Surfer to burn Order Markers on defense to stay alive, and they avoided attacking while adjacent to limit the effects of Power Transmutation. Silver Surfer did manage to kill off 5 Skrull Warriors before falling.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Skrull Warriors win Turn 2, Round 3, with 3 Skrull Warriors left.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 400
- Give a brief overview. The X-Men have so many tools in their tool box that despite decent D20 rolls by Mister Fantastic, and Silver Surfer’s impressive performance, they were able to pull off the win.
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer (400), Mister Fantastic, Invisible Woman, Iceman (1,000) vs. Professor X, Beast, Cyclops, Angel, Mystique, Blob (1,000)

Spoiler Alert!

Silver Surfer put 2 wounds on Prof X early and seemed like he might be just the assassin needed, but then Cyclops focused fire on Silver Surfer and he moved back to stay within the safety of Invisible Woman’s aura and ended up getting stuck to Blob later. He did eventually kill off Prof X, but by then it was Iceman and Surfer versus Angel, Mystique, and Beast. Surfer (who healed 2 wounds during the game) managed to put the last wound on Beast, but Mystique’s shots from range and height finished him off, then Iceman failed to wound Mystique or Angel before going down. Surfer put one wound on Beast, three wounds on Blob, and all the wounds on Cyclops and Professor X. This battle felt extremely fun and balanced.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Mystique and Angel win Turn 1, Round 8, both with full life.

_____________________________________________________________

Army Test
- Does it pass, Yes or No? Yes
- What should be the unit's point value? 400
- Give a brief overview. Very fun. Fan Four keep Surfer from going too crazy when he bonds, but he’s a very powerful end gamer (even if he didn’t get it done here).
Map: Custom
Units: Silver Surfer (400), Mr. Fantastic, Thing, Invisible Woman, Human Torch (Johnny Storm) (1,400) vs. Doctor Doom (375), Doombot x2 (190), Scarlet Witch (285), Super-Skrull (340), Skrull Warriors x2 (220) (1410)

Spoiler Alert!

The Fantastic Four were running away with it early, but picked up several wounds here and there, and Scarlet Witch’s curse slowed Mr. Fantastic’s bonding down incredibly. Doctor Doom came in then (actually he came in three times, thanks to two Doombots laying down their lives for him) and finished off Mr. Fantastic and Invisible Woman. This led to an end game between full life Silver Surfer and Doctor Doom with 1 wound. Doom managed to steal Silver Surfer’s powers a few times and an epic battle (Surfer healed 4 wounds) ended up with Doom pulling off a narrow victory. Silver Surfer killed one Skrull Warrior and put 5 wounds on Doctor Doom.
Who won and how many wounds did they have? Doctor Doom with 1 life left wins Turn 1, Round 9.

[Hahma]

400 seems about right based on those test results. Spidey should be happy that SS is slower than Flash now all the time.

[IAmBatman]

yeah, though he should also look at the bio I added about Surfer regularly traveling faster than the speed of light. Man, Surfer is really up and down - he can absolutely dominate sometimes and then be absolutely dominated other times. A lot of that comes from hanging him on one big attack. I think being in Fan Four armies will force you to play him a bit more conservatively, which will probably lower his value a tad, but keep him around a lot longer too. He won't be attacking so fiercely, unless he's the one left at the end (in which case he should be a really effective clean up unit). His defensive capabilities should be close to the same, though, or even better, thanks to Invisible Woman, and Mr. Fantastic being able to lock units down should really help him zip in and out of battles.

[IAmBatman]

In order to channel the Power Cosmic, Silver Surfer has to exert himself. The more he uses, the more he exerts himself - which is represented by pulling unrevealed Order Markers off his card. If he exerts himself enough he burns up his store of energy (X-Marker) and then if he exerts himself more, he has to rest afterward (numbered OMs).
In terms of strategy, it's actually a lot of fun and pretty useful to blow all of your Order Markers for the round on one big attack to try to take out an enemy heavy hitter. I've only done heavy hitter tests for him so far, though, not army tests, but this strategy was pretty useful against units like Superman and Hulk.

Thanks for the input!
Bats

Originally Posted by Porkins

Looks good, cost feels about right with the larger life, attack, defense and range (compared to the Official).

I like that you nerfed the Cosmic Speed power. The official card's Hyper Speed 5 is too good.

Energy Transmutation is a cool idea, probably contributing to his cost. This mayyyy make him too hard to kill, maybe need to reduce life by one.

Power Cosmic...eh, not so sure. Giving up more than the 'x' marker seems too costly for a single extra die. Also, the theme is not obvious to me: ie - what does giving up turns have to do with getting more cosmic power? Or using Cosmic Power to attack or defend?

[Griffin]

THE POWER COSMIC
Before rolling attack or defense dice, you may remove any number of unrevealed Order Markers from this card and add that number of skulls or shields to your roll.

I think Porkins may have missed the fact that this power gives auto skulls/shields, not extra dice. If it were just extra dice, I would agree that it isn't worth giving up a turn or turns, but every once in a while, this power will be VERY useful.