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#385
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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For the soul-guiding concept to feel authentic it probably needs to somehow affect a figure at the moment of death, not 8 rounds later. The gameplay feels like it's telling the story of a violation of the natural way things work when somebody dies. Resurrecting a dead warrior to send it on one last blood quest doesn't feel very honoring, or very Jandar, or very "guide me into my final rest." I would recommend deciding whether you like the theme or the gameplay better, and then develop the other one accordingly. Especially in a set designed to initiate new players, it's important that form and function go together hand in glove. Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list |
#386
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
I guess for me I've always seen them it in the sense of spirits lingering with unfinished business. I can see the concern in the context of Heroscape's Valhalla, though. I'm open to ideas for either giving them a theme that matches the mechanics better, or mechanics that align with the theme better. I do like the current concept and execution of the power, though.
Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#387
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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If the main intended story is that they have unfinished business and need to wound or kill other living people, I would recommend steering away from the whole Psychopomp mythology and maybe portraying these figures as the spirits of the dead themselves. It seems there could be at least two general directions to go with this: 1. As the spirits of figures killed in this battle. In this approach they would likely need to start the game not on the battlefield (as Scytale kind of alluded to), then could be swapped in to replace one of your Unique Heroes at the moment of its destruction. This could still give you an effect much like what you've got now, where each one provides a shot at re-using one of your dead figures for one turn. But first the lantern geist figure wanders the battlefield for a while, then (sooner or later) fights a final turn as a proxy for that original figure (otherwise there's not much reason to even have the geist figures). Maybe you can take that final turn with the geist as soon as your next turn, or if that's not enough of a wait you can build in a d20 roll or require revealing the "X" or make it optional at the beginning/end of any round, whatever. Anything that feels like it justifies the presence of the separate figure, so that they "wander" for at least a short time before trying to finish their unfinished business. 2. As the spirits of figures killed in previous battles. In this approach they can start the game on the battlefield, wandering around with high defense and low (or no?) attack, awaiting the opportunity to re-manifest as their former self for one turn to attempt finishing their unfinished business. I have a custom Glyph that does something like this: Quote:
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Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list |
#388
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
The lanterns really do suggest some kind of Psychopomp theme, and personally I would rather see the gameplay modified to fit the sculpts. In that mode, my next thought would be something like this:
3. As otherworldly figures that actually help guide or "process" the dead. Maybe the value of the geists could be that they usually just guide the dead along (with some nominal benefit/reward for doing so), but once in a while they carry out their boss' assessment that "it's not your time yet." One simple-ish way to do this could be with some variant of a Sacred Band Defy Death/Leaf of the Home Tree Aura kind of power. Thematically, though, it shouldn't just prevent or heal wounds; it should probably (in rare cases) take somebody who was literally destroyed and send them back to the world of the living. Here's a quick stab at that: Quote:
In this model I would again give the geists low attack and high defense, so you are incentivized to use them for their thematic role, and your opponent is incentivized to commit resources to take them down early since the longer they live, the more trouble they will cause. I always like units with good potential to make the other player feel unsettled or drive them to less-than-optimal tactical choices. (At my old job, we had a saying for units like this: sometimes "the threat is stronger than the execution.") Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list |
#389
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
I would recommend something much simpler.
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#390
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
That feels distinctly evil to me though? Since he's only "guiding" your opponent's figures? To me an autokill power feels even more thematically at odds with the idea of a benevolent soul guide than a temporary revival power.
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#391
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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#392
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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#393
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
Riffing on that:
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Arena of the Valkyire - Help create Heroscape's next Master Set! Trade List C3V Brainstorm never not funny Pepperony - 14/09/13 |
#394
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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The AotP Lantern Geists card is rather unhelpful in developing theme/personality, since all they do is spy on a card and leave the battlefield, so I googled around and found a wiki called Realm of Midgard. I can't tell what source(s) drive it, but like Scape this wiki seems to be based on a blend of mythologies with a strong Norse component, so maybe it's somewhat relevant? Anyway its mythological framework says that Lantern Geists are evil, horrific, eldritch creations that steal the souls of the living and the dead. This of course is not helpful for an honored Jandar unit, but even worse, it says that geists can harm the living but cannot be touched by mortals at all, making this backstory even more unhelpful for a game in which all figures need to be able to attack each other. However, Lantern Geists are evil corruptions of something called a Lantern Archon, which among its many roles does indeed have the psychopompy job of guiding the dead into the afterlife. They also seem very honor/Jandar-compatible, since Archons in general are guardians of various types who aid those of Orderly alignment and fight against chaos. Lantern Archons in particular are said to be creatures of pure light; a special type of good archon created by and for Angels to serve them in various ways. I like all this backstory, but I still don't know how to map it onto bringing somebody back from the dead to kill again for one last turn, or how to make that mechanic feel honorable and Jandary. But, if there is a desire to retain the Jandar and honor elements, then maybe thinking of these figures as archons rather than geists can help. For me, this actually fits the miniatures perfectly. Their poses and coloration seem rather serene, as opposed to the terrifying eldritch evils which are about to imprison your soul in a lantern that AotP was apparently trying to invoke. So I guess what I'm saying is it's reasonable to interpret the minis either way, but I would 100% buy them as Lantern Archons (and it's a pretty great title for a unit). Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list |
#395
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
I also had a brainstorm about another way to legitimize the Psychopomp class.
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Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list Last edited by Just_a_Bill; May 28th, 2022 at 02:33 PM. |
#396
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Re: [Pod 0] Honored Soul-Guides (Lantern Geists) - Design
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To be clear, I don't have any problem with murderer-ghosts or soulstealer-spirits. I just don't buy portraying them as honorable or calling 'em psychopomps. Good traders: tdemirji, AbsintheAddict, Blubberguy22, Toa Matoro, SuperSamyon, Bl1ndsn1per, Ericth74,
Clipper423, Oh Freek, Nikkomon, DarthBaggins, quizzcode, Astroking112 & more on my trade list |
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