The Book of Isamu - Page 5

~~jcb231~~ · #49 July 15th, 2007, 06:57 PM

I think he's worth 10 points, 15 at the max.

He's essentially a lone squad figure with limited use. I have yet to see him do anything really spectacular, and I've proxied him a lot. I've seen him die horribly while doing nothing many many times and I've seen him do about 10-20 points worth of damage many times. I have yet to see him do more than 40 points worth of killing and that was in a game where he really rolled well for dodging and attacking and defense.

I'd say his effectiveness in our house has averaged out to about 10-15 points, hence my opening sentence.

Billtog · #50 July 15th, 2007, 07:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Menchy

So they decided to make him a ming vase with a laser gun...of sorts.

I believe the term you're looking for is "glass cannon."

I agree with jcb231, you guys are definitely overestimating this one. If he just had three attack and one defense, people wouldn't waste an order marker on him. But as he is now, he seems a lot more useful than he really is. The fact is, there are a lot of situation where he won't be able to vanish because he won't be able to end his move non-adjacent. Factor that in with the rate of success for Vanish and you have a really cool hero that falls way before you'd like him too. If you don't get him in the thick of battle (where he won't be able to properly vanish), he may last a bit longer, but earning more than 40 or 50 points is just pure luck.

Xaqery · #51 July 15th, 2007, 08:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyfish

Just played a game with him today and he kicked tail! Until my opponent figured out how to negate his vanish- tying him up with the rats.

Could you elaberate more on this? How would the rats tie him up?

Dictatorbilbo · #52 July 15th, 2007, 08:38 PM

I'm a bit confused on one point: Does his Phantom Walk apply to his movement when using disappear?

monkeyfish · #53 July 15th, 2007, 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaqery

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyfish

Just played a game with him today and he kicked tail! Until my opponent figured out how to negate his vanish- tying him up with the rats.

Could you elaberate more on this? How would the rats tie him up?

My opponent maneuvered his figures into a position where Isamu's vanish wouldn't work because his figures formed a net that Isamu couldn't vanish from.
Sorry if this post is a bit repetitive.

nickmodaily · #54 July 15th, 2007, 09:00 PM

Also, while your opponent is using their order markers on Isamu (a single figure with a low life expectancy) you can be positioning your four figure squads on glyphs or getting them to high ground.

Plus, while playing Isamu, do you put all three order markers on him and hope that he's able to survivie long enough to use them all? If you ask me, it's quite a gamble. I think the reason that he only costs 10 points is because of the increased chances that you will end up wasting order markers on him.

I think he's priced just right.

NecroBlade · #55 July 15th, 2007, 09:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dictatorbilbo

I'm a bit confused on one point: Does his Phantom Walk apply to his movement when using disappear?

It most certainly does. He wouldn't be very "vanished" if he couldn't walk right through everyone still.

~~jcb231~~ · #56 July 15th, 2007, 11:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaqery

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyfish

Just played a game with him today and he kicked tail! Until my opponent figured out how to negate his vanish- tying him up with the rats.

Could you elaberate more on this? How would the rats tie him up?

They can't.....unless there's such an insane number of rats that Isamu cannot reach a clear space to vanish. But that's a lot of rats.

DingoDarkly · #57 July 16th, 2007, 04:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcb231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaqery

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyfish

Just played a game with him today and he kicked tail! Until my opponent figured out how to negate his vanish- tying him up with the rats.

Could you elaberate more on this? How would the rats tie him up?

They can't.....unless there's such an insane number of rats that Isamu cannot reach a clear space to vanish. But that's a lot of rats.

It would have to be 3-5 squads wouldn't it? I'm trying to visualise it in my head.

Would it not be better to surround Isamu with Gladiatrons?

killercactus · #58 July 16th, 2007, 10:26 AM

Glads would be much better, but they also cost twice as much. It's difficult to find a place for them without the blasts in a normal army.

Depending on where he is on the map, 2 squads of rats might be able to stop vanish if they have him backed into a corner or there is a lot of height around. Anyway, we're talking about 80 points to stop a 10 point figure...

That's why I like this guy so much. You're opponent has to get lucky to kill him, unless they plan on devoting a bunch of points to take out your measley 10.

Riptide · #59 July 16th, 2007, 11:59 AM

Yeah, well, my opponent yesterday got lucky. My Isuma got too close to Mimring (I was on my way to take out Raelin) and was attacked by the fire line S.A. He rolled 1 skull, I rolled a 7 on the d20 and then rolled a blank!!! Can you believe it? A blank! The luck og the dice was not with me yesterday. Good thing he is only 10 points.

HyperactiveSloth · #60 July 16th, 2007, 12:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jandars_Hope

Quote:

Originally Posted by jcb231

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xaqery

Quote:

Originally Posted by monkeyfish

Just played a game with him today and he kicked tail! Until my opponent figured out how to negate his vanish- tying him up with the rats.

Could you elaberate more on this? How would the rats tie him up?

They can't.....unless there's such an insane number of rats that Isamu cannot reach a clear space to vanish. But that's a lot of rats.

It would have to be 3-5 squads wouldn't it? I'm trying to visualise it in my head.

Would it not be better to surround Isamu with Gladiatrons?

Actually, you would only need to have a rat on every third space. With two spaces between each, there's nowhere that's not adjacent. If he did this near the edge of the map (cornered) it would only take about 4-5 rats: 1 next to Isamu, then a semicircle of them 3 spaces away. With a move of 4, Isamu has nowhere to go rat-free. The same thing could be accomplished with Vipers or any other swarm, really.

As far as this being an "anti-Isamu" strategy, thus making 40-80 points just to counter a 10 pointer, I don't think that's what he was saying either. The whole point is that there are several ways to defeat Isamu even with his ability AND perfect rolls.

What it really comes down to is that there's really no need to counterdraft anything against Isamu or spend any points blocking him. It's all about the order markers. Isamu can't do anything for you without orders, but giving him multiple orders in a single round is just asking to be screwed.

Isamu's point value if he survives for several turns ~ 50or60. Isamu's point value if he costs you a couple of order markers that could have been used by someone more durable ~ -40.

In other words, as has been said by much better players than myself already, Isamu's main cost is not in points, but in activations. The cost of putting order markers on him is what makes him a real gamble. If you're safe and use him only on the first turn of each round (and even then he could be taken out if your opponent has initiative) then it would take several rounds for him to accomplish much. If you give him more than one order and send him into the fray, he could easily hurt you more than he helps you.

Isamu has lots of nemeses in this game, the biggest one being himself.

All that being said, will I draft him for 10 points if it fits my army, Hell Yeah!