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  #109  
Old October 18th, 2021, 10:20 AM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 2 until 10/4

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Originally Posted by Vydar_XLIII View Post
Round 1 Statistics


Round 2 Statistics
Round 3 Statistics


I made a new entry for the updates made to Byrikon, C'Rik, Grabby and Caylus and I will do the same for Janos and Ataraxis next round.

Cumulative Over 3 Rounds
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  #110  
Old October 18th, 2021, 10:23 AM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

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The Chris Perkins v. Captain Stupendous pool of armies is:
* God Save the Queen: Amberhive Protectors x5, Amberhive Queen, Byrikon the Hiveless, Eltahale
* Choose (Your Dragon) Wisely: Greenscale Warriors x4, Altais of the Deep, Othkurik the Black Dragon
* Not the Boss of Me!: Capuan Gladiators x3, 53rd N. Carolina Sharpshooters x3, Crixus, Capt. Nathaniel Blount, Otonashi
* Greil Mercenaries: Janos, Maekor, Bambina, C'Rik, Etiana, Maltis Tez
Captain Stupendous chooses which army to play first or may defer. After armies are picked, Chris Perkins chooses who places first.
Playing tonight @ 7:30 Eastern.
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  #111  
Old October 18th, 2021, 11:15 AM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

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Originally Posted by vegietarian18 View Post
I lost my game to KnightOfLight tonight to end my hopes of defending my playtest tournament title. He had Zombies and I had Ants. The main lesson from this game was Zombies are good against Ants. Maybe not the best playtest data, but a good counterdraft from KoL.

I opened using Kaemon and unable-to-Hatred Marcu to build an Onslaught proof Kaemon zone on the Northern part of the board and launch some pings, but Kaemon's shots didn't do much damage. I switched over to Ants quickly as a result, but it was probably too quickly. My initial wave of Ants died only netting one or two Zombie kills. My second wave did better, having pulled the Zombies a little bit closer to my startzone I was more able to leverage Marcus and the Amberhive Queen's combat boosts, but they came up short, with maybe four Zombies remaining when the last Ant went down. Honestly I was really kept in the game by some aggressive pushes on to the Zombie Hulks to shut down Zombie turns via Horde Shriek unengaged requirement. My remaining heroes made a game of it. Marcus killed one Hulk, the Queen killed another, everyone killed a few Zombies, but the end result was the Queen taking her final wound to lava with a 1 life Ataraxis and Marcu and Isamu remaining. Good game KoL.

Ataraxis: Great game for her. One thing with the Zombies specifically is she really tips the scales on their already-favorable matchups and makes them even more favorable. 1 defense ants are very tasty food for Zombies. There was just not a whole lot the Ants themselves could do here besides hope to get lucky and blitz the Zombies out of the game.

Amberhive Queen: Weird game for her. Because the Zombie Hulks were on the board I couldn't really risk using her too close to the frontlines, so I tried to leave her in my startzone and use her aura there. I got it a few times and hit the Frenzy once. Not a bad game for her as a body on the board though. She did some work in cleanup, killing a Zombie Hulk, few Zombies. She threatened to pull out the victory at the end even though the game overall was not close. 6 move flying is just a good statline.
Thank you Vegie for summing up the game! I do not have much else to add, so I'll just drop my opinions on the playtesting units here.
Ataraxis:
This was my first time playing with/against her. She seems like a really good cheerleader. The defense reduction is really quite good, especially against low defense squads. She seems a perfect fit for zombies, giving them more offensive potency as well as helping top protect the hulks. That being said, she seemed almost oppressive, definitely due to the match up, however, she is also 160 points. Terror field was used all game as I moved her out first turn and then continued to push her forward with the zombies as the game went on. I used necrotizing wormhole 3 out of the four turns I activated her. It is a really good defense and offensive power. The repositioning it gives is really versatile. I'm torn on how strong I feel it is. Like it does a lot, but it also takes a turn. I think her 3 life really is helping this power stay fair. Vegie played this game really well, so nanobot phylactery never came into play. Overall, I am a big fan of Ataraxis, as I love her power set, more so then I initially anticipated. I can not wait to test her with some other undead armies.

Amberhive Queen:
This was the best personal showing for the queen that I have seen. Unfortunately, evasive and the frenzied swarm abilities did not do much. She did put in a solid amount of work though. Killing a zombie hulk who had the talisman of defense treasure glyph, as well as a few zombies and a wound on Ataraxis. Her best showing was defensively, she took a high ground spot on lava, and I intended to trap her there and chip away at her health with the lava. She proved harder to kill then I expected outlasting the hulk, and the five remaining zombies. She went down to lava damage after the last zombie dealt 2 wound bring her to 1 life left.

This game was super fun, Vegie played very smart all game and made a comeback near the end, despite the positive match up in my favor. GG Vegie!
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  #112  
Old October 19th, 2021, 09:17 AM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

I got the win over Captain Stupendous last night.

Cpt played Altais very aggressively in the early game, ending round 1 just outside my SZ to maximize the # of bees that Altais exterminated. I was able to get 5 SAs into Altais though on my OM3 of round 1 as Altais had flown faster than the GWs could keep up with, and those 5 SAs did 4 wounds (Altais had height, so 4 v. 4 s). Between Altais' attacks and SA suicide I lost 11 bees in round 1.

Cpt won init in round 2 and flew Altais away, taking 1 LEA (on 2 rolls) and hid behind the GWs again (unable to do much damage now). The GWs then engaged bees in the middle of the field, with Byrikon dealing some ranged shots to help the bees poor offensive performance. I was able to get the Queen adjacent to Altais, taking a 3 v 4 shot, but it didn't kill the dragon. GWs tied down Byrikon in the center of the map to stop him from being able to take ranged shots on Altais.

With Altais near death, Cpt OMs to Othkurik, who flew in and engaged the Queen but did no wounds. The Queen disengaged (taking 1) to get height on Othkurik, but was also unable to deal any wounds. Several bees got suicidal SAs in though, one killing Altais. Othkurik killed the Queen over the next 2 attacks while bees took SAs into Othkurik and some GWs. Byrikon was able to get 1 ranged attack in on Othkurik before he died to the young dragon. Othkurik had taken 2 wounds at this point and grabbed the defense + 1 T-glyph.

Without being able to get any more SAs in with bees, I spent 2 more OMs surrounding Othkurik with all the bees I had left before switching to Eltahale. Meanwhile, GWs started engaging the bees to try and kill more than 1 per turn, but I had a single bee hold up 2 GWs in the south for almost a full round, tanking on defense. That road block let Eltahale get in quicker, and Cpt decided to have Othkurik triple LEA from bees to run from Eltahale, which did 1 wound. Eltahale took a SA into 2 GWs + Othkurik then, killing one GW.

I won init on the next round, and Eltahale used thunder step to get height on Othkurik and finish the dragon off with a 7 v 5. Cpt had the whole round of OMs on Othkurik, so the game was basically over at this point. Eltahale took a turn to SA kill 2 GWs still in Cpt's SZ and then took the defense glyph to end the round. The next round Eltahale tracked down and finished the last 2 GWs.

gg Cpt!

Thoughts on testing figures:

Altais : I'm not a big fan of Altais right now; I think the matchup variance is too high. Into an army like bees (or another massed commons with low defense), Altais is going to kill tons and tons of them quickly. Into an army like the Mercs, Altais is going to struggle to be worth half his points. This seems like a 170 point dragon who, depending on the matchup, is really worth 210 or 130 points. I don't love the regular attack being only 4, as it makes it harder for Altais to make up ground in the bad matchups into hero based armies. I've heard some comparison to Zelrig, but Zelrig's range 7 on the SA allows him to kite much more effectively even in the bad matchups. I struggle to see Altais getting brought in a double-blind format as-is.

Queen : I was able to get her in a really good early spot where she had effective 7 defense from Altais (4 base + 2 evasive + 1 shadow), so she was quite safe in the early game from Altais pot shots. Survivability seems reasonable right now to me. 6 move flying is definitely nice as she can go from pure support to offensive bonder quickly.

Byrikon : Having a ranged bonder is really crucial for the bees; they needed help from the last playtest tournament and Byrikon is helping provide it. I understand his Init was nerfed because it's too strong with the Mercs, but it almost never is relevant now inside the bees army (you're putting 3 OMs on bees, so max +1 init) and the whole 'hiveless' thing feels like a better thematic fit with the bees + Queen, so it's sad to see the power mostly useless inside that build now. Maybe there's a way to word it so Byrikon can get more ++ to init inside the bees army without also getting it for the Mercs build?

Edit: adding Fenzy + SA results:
Frenzy hit 5 / 10 (well above average)
SAs dealt damage 7 / 12 times (seems right around where it should be in this matchup)

Last edited by Chris Perkins; October 19th, 2021 at 09:18 AM. Reason: adding Fenzy + SA results
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  #113  
Old October 19th, 2021, 11:04 AM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

kevindola - Buzz-killers: Amberhive Protectors x4, Byrikon the Hiveless, Amberhive Queen, Sujoah

S1R - Fire From Above: Greenscale Warriors x4, Marro Warriors, Kalagrith, Syvarris

Bees and Large Heroes went up against Kala and Syvarris in the opening with the bees flying into S1R's side. Sac Sting and some heightened bee normal attacks took out Kalagrith very fast (one Scorched Earth that went 0/4)

Frenzy was hitting all over the place and helped the single attack bees kill a Greenscale and get a hit on Syvarris and Kalagrith. But the greenscales 2 attack was enough to start thinning out the bees. I had lost about 4 from sac stinging.

At this point I got aggressive after Sac Stinging 2 Marro Warriors to leave 2. Sujoah triple disengaged (2 hits), but with 2 marros left missed on a 4v3, 5v3, and 4v3 to have the Marros clone back to full health over the next 3 order markers.

The Queen eventually died from lava after taking wounds from a failed trap, and 2 early hits from Syvarris. I had left a 1 life Syvarris who started to clean up my bees, but this did allow me to get a couple kills on the Marro Warriors. I had to take another double disengage to get to the last one, but eventually got the kill.

This left Sujoah 2 life, Byrikon, 2 bees vs. 7 Greenscales.

Sujoah took out 2 and a bee sac stinged another. Leaving Byrikon (+1 attack) and 1 bee vs. 4 Greenscales.

I killed one at the end of the round (3 left) and took a lava wound from height.

I won the big initiative to activate Rapid Response, but Byrikon went 1/10 on his two attacks and he was then swarmed and killed.

S1R won with 3 Greenscales left. GG!

All in all, I was probably too aggressive with Sujoah and Sac Sting to take out the Marros (although that is hindsight that Sujoah couldn't hit to get them down to 1), but I also could have used that time to establish position and kill Syvarris. Just you know, Marro Warriors are scary.

Unit Thoughts:

Kalagrith: Tought to maneuver with the Greenscales. I played very aggressively and caught her with a bee putting 2 wound on her with normal attacks and the 0/4 was disastrous as it left bees in key positions to sac sting and finish her off. Tough game to really gauge. If she had hit even 1 skull I likely couldn't have surrounded her like I did and might have brought in Sujoah with the Giant Hunter instead.

Queen: I like where the Queen stands. Evasive helped her survive against Syvarris early barrage of attacks of 4, while Frenzy activated once on a special, and about 12 times on the normal accounting for a greenscale kill and a wound on Kala.

Byrikon
: Very much like Byrikon's tool kit. I do think the d20 ability could stand to be buffed. I don't like what it does at +8, but the +1/OM didn't feel like enough. Rapid Response was huge as it allowed 2 attacks of 5 in a critical endgame. He just rolled 1/10 :/
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  #114  
Old October 19th, 2021, 01:08 PM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

BB and I had a great, close game last night. I had Altais/Ziggo and their squads, BB had the explorers and Raelin.

Altais found the defense treasure and was able to manipulate the adventurer formation quite a bit with the explosive breath, but only managed a handful of wounds. However the manipulation did allow the greenscales to get lots of productive attacks in, which wore down the adventurers. Altais moved to the back line, killing some rats and tossing Rygarn around, and jumped on top of Rygarn to land a potential killing blow, but after a temporal jump it was Rygarn getting the kill instead.

After that it was a long grind of squaddies against the now-scattered explorer pod. Janos went down first, followed by Raelin, followed by Rygarn dying to lava, followed by Maekor. Bambina held out for a long time but was eventually brought down.

Altais: I like Altais more than most - I find the movement ability very powerful. However she is quite fragile and was definitely helped significantly by the defense treasure in this game. A cost drop, and perhaps an attack bump to 5, are both on the table. BB and I discussed adding 1 to the range on the breath but I worry that makes her too much better in her good matchups.

I really enjoy that we've got two dragons we're working on in this cycle (Kal and Altais) that both have issues with the boring "sit behind a greenscale screen and shoot" strategy, but for very different reasons. I did breathe on my own greenscales twice this game.

Janos/Rygarn: The nerf to 5 life and 2 attack on the first run of the SA makes Janos a bit more manageable. I still really enjoy the Rygarn interaction in theory but it does, to some extent, push the army more in the direction of a Ulginesh-style OM hub as opposed to juggling OMs around. I think it's OK though.

Maekor: Maekor was pretty terrible this game but honestly that was just the dice. In general I like that Maekor represents the aggro side of the faction, and his strong offense is tempered by relatively bad defense.

Bambina: I wonder if she's a bit too tanky? A side-nerf to 4 defense/6 life would be possible (maybe drop points). Overall I like the way she works a lot. BB mentioned possibly dropping the range on the pistol to 4.

(Bambina and Altais would have been crazy on this map if they could lava dunk.)

Ziggo: Didn't do much. I was 1/2 on Taunt but still took a wound on the attack, then Bambina just started shooting him and killed him two shots later (despite the scarab blocking one wound). He's an odd figure in some ways because the slasher mechanics and taunt means that he's getting shot at a lot. But still, he's a pretty inexpensive ranged bonding hero, so it's not like he's ever going to be bad.
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  #115  
Old October 20th, 2021, 12:29 PM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

Quote:
Originally Posted by kevindola View Post
kevindola - Buzz-killers: Amberhive Protectors x4, Byrikon the Hiveless, Amberhive Queen, Sujoah

S1R - Fire From Above: Greenscale Warriors x4, Marro Warriors, Kalagrith, Syvarris
I’ll just add my take.

Kalagrith - I’ve played her in my last three games and have only used her special twice. It certainly feels swingy because in order to maximize targets she’s often put into a vulnerable spot (partially because of the double base and being close to a clogged up map area). KD had a great move of tactically bonding to lob 5 frenzied bee attacks at her on OM3 after she totally whiffed her three target (plus one GSW) special. She died to a lava roll right after. I think some were suggesting that she’s a bit fragile, and I could see a bump in life or defense (she actually had height while defending against the 5 bees but still took 6 wounds) to enable that aggressive play from her to be outside a screen. Otherwise the best strategy seems to be fly over one target at a time to be safe and land behind the screen while buffing GSW. She plays close to the GSW’s to make sure she can conserve move as opposed to MC/Nilf/Zelig who like their screen to be at a distance to reduce potential engagements on them/occupy higher ground, so she still feels different to me.

Queen - She played a perfect role, really like this figure. She wasn’t too frail, surviving against 5x attacks of 4 plus some GSW pings. The frenzy rolls from KD were killer.

Byrikon - I agree with KD that the +1 per OM isn’t as impactful, but the +2 would be too much. Maybe a +2 but max boost of +4/+6? Rapid Response worked well in the endgame, and realizing it could be used to kite effectively made me start to roll over GSW to try and engage him and pin him down. I mostly like where’s he’s at.
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  #116  
Old October 21st, 2021, 09:24 PM
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Sir H and I going at it soon. I have the Children. He has the Tribe.

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  #117  
Old October 22nd, 2021, 12:21 AM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

I got the win this time around.


Dysole: Alien Abduction: Children of the Dark Star x4, Gräbermund, Raelin (RotV), Swaysil, Marcu Esenwein
SirH: Hit Me Baby one More Tribe: Mohican River Tribe x3, Teeth of the Makwa x 3, Brave Arrow, Kolbjorn

This was an interesting game because I felt like I had the advantage of having primarily range, but in order to get extra activations I'd have to go through the meatgrinder of melee engagements in Raelins Aura. That happened somewhat, but I was able to keep distance enough to catch some children out of the aura, and just sheer good dice helped give me a strong lead mid-way through when it was looking like Dysole's setup and position with Raeli backed Grabby and Children were starting to roast me. Grabby came in and swallowed Kolby promptly and then I returned the favor by getting big attacks on him and knocking him out even with Raelin defense. That stole 2 OM's of Dysoles and I was able to get some more kills on Children to limit their position and activations. Swaysil then came out to play and picked up the Defense Talisman glyph but had a hard time getting kills and then fell quickly after a mistaken placement by Dysole. After that it was just cleanup.

Survived:
Brave (2L), 4 Teeth, 2 Mohicans

Stalker X1 (beginning of the game)
Giant Killer X1 (0/1) got a height shot off at Grabby but was blocked.
Call (no use)

Kolby
Literally did nothing, though I guess he did soak attacks that would have otherwise gone to Mohicans or Teeth, so there's value in being a meatshield. I don't have too much of an opinion on him right now, but maybe 3 def instead of 2 since I think it's a bit odd a loin-clothed Brave Arrow has more defense.

Grabby
Maybe people aren't playing him right...or maybe I just got lucky attacks...but the last 2 games Grabby has died after hardly doing anything. That said...he did swallow a 2life Kolby...so there's that, but even with 8 life and raelin backed defense...he just kinda died. I think it's in part because in order for the children army to success, you HAVE to split Order Markers between the children and their horror. That means the hero is almost always gaurenteed to be a sleeper throughout part of the round which allows for attacks to go through without retaliation. I think it's worth considering moving him to 4 def...but again I recognize that's a significant buff, so idk...
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  #118  
Old October 23rd, 2021, 01:30 PM
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Re: 2021 C3V Playtest Tournament - Round 4 until 11/1

HeroscaperGuy:Children of the Dark Star x4, Z'Thoth, Gräbermund, Bol
Vydar_XLIII:deathreavers x3, Janos, Bambina, Etiana, Maekor
Spoiler Alert!

Grabbermund
Swallow was used once and his special was used once. His Clamber I think was used twice.
So Grabbermund only killed two deathreavers. He whiffed on defense like 3 times. So yeah he didn't do really anything. Z'thoth was def mvp, killing almost everyone. Mercs are still fun to play against though.

"They are too numerous to fight. What shall we do?" "Fight anyway."

"You can never defeat another if you know not how to defeat yourself."
my tradelist
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  #119  
Old October 23rd, 2021, 01:48 PM
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Thoughts and Things

No new thoughts on Kolby post game. Ranged giant hunter is interesting when you actually care about it.

I feel like I need some more games to fully get how to play Grabby. Sir H got an amazing confluence of attacks to kill him although I did admittedly put him in a somewhat vulnerable spot. His best army probably isn't children as unlike the other outsiders you can't count on him to tank attacks and his multi attack and swallow ability is the type of ability that makes him a priority target. I think you want to play him more stalkery attacking whatever can't hit him back. Mid to endgame with the opponent not being able to focus on him, he could be a terror but I think he's very much a figure where if you're not careful he'll fizzle.

~Dysole, having fun with the Demogorgon
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