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  #13  
Old May 4th, 2021, 04:00 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

This card uses the equivalent of placement wording used on Saylind's card.
"-If you roll a 9-20, move the chosen figure to any space adjacent to Saylind."

I was wondering if she could Pass Through Stone 0 spaces. I was thinking its possible she could, but she would take LEAs before rolling the D20.
However, I think does need to be a different space, because even though it's "of equal terrain elevation within 4 spaces of her," and 0 is within 4, "move to" I think suggests it must be different space.

It would be more clear if it specified whether the space must be empty or unoccupied, but since it does not, that does mean she can Pass Through Stone onto a glyph.
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  #14  
Old May 18th, 2021, 05:25 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Actually, I think she could use Pass Through Stone after rolling for LEAs and moving 0 spaces. It doesn't say empty or unoccupied, meaning it could be occupied (by her).

For example

Project Self
Sorcery
Move a blue Planeswalker you control to an empty space that's adjacent to another figure you control.

Same "move to space" wording, but specifies empty.
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  #15  
Old May 18th, 2021, 06:32 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

I do not think so, the "you may move her to a space of equal terrain elevation within 4 spaces of her" implies you must not and the same space you started this power with. However it is a moot point as this is after your normal move so just move to a different space then do the PASS THROUGH STONE to move to where you ultimately want to end up. You have to do leaving disengagements during normal move and Pass Through Stone so essentially it does not matter when you end the move and start the power if you could do a normal move to get to the same space anyway.
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  #16  
Old May 18th, 2021, 08:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

So the difference between "Move to" and "place" is that a figure can be placed 0 spaces, whereas a figure must be "moved to" minimum 1 space?

And the only reason it doesn't specify empty or unoccupied is to allow her to end on a Glyph?
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  #17  
Old May 19th, 2021, 12:15 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

"Place" is basically supposedly more like teleport where you do not count any terrain effects, height elevations, engagements, or obstacles - essentially the same as flying or grapple arm or swing line, etc. But the PASS THROUGH STONE power mentions "move" but in most people's opinion should more act like place/fly/swing etc. Move can always be "0" spaces, debatable whether you can "place" a figure 0 spaces away.

However "PASS THROUGH STONE" seems it imply that it must move at least 1 space after the normal move to count as using power, but am not 100% on that, as the power is worded so poorly. I would say people can argue this, but essentially the argument is pointless as you can just "normal move" 1 space different from where you want to end up, and since when you start PASS THROUGH STONE you take leaving engagement attacks (similar how you do when you start to fly) it really doesn't matter either way - with once exception - cryptoliths. I am not sure if during your normal move you decide to scale a cryptolith if you can use PASS THROUGH STONE and stay on the cryptoliths - however that is also mostly a moot point UNLESS you have multiple cryptoliths next to each other where two+ figures can be adjacent on top. If you ever get this situation in a game, I say roll a die for it as again the wording on the card is so terrible I am not sure.
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  #18  
Old May 19th, 2021, 01:41 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

Because her card doesn't specify either empty or unoccupied, she can Pass onto a Cryptolith from a level 9 space/Cryptolith.

The question of Pass isn't moot, here was a situation I was in:


On Island Plane Crash, Nahiri (on her last 2 Life) was between the last Restless Zombie on height, and equal to Liliana on her last life, who was using a Sand tile that Nahiri raised.
I wanted to kill Liliana before the Zombie so they don't respawn.
The zombie is on a height of 4, so stepping off to the spaces on either side would cause me to take a LEA from the Zombie, and without a way to Pass Through Stone against it.

Ultimately I just attacked Liliana and failed, and then got killed.
However, if Passing Through Stone 0 spaces is an option, I could have risked the 2 LEAs for the 25% chance of destroying the Zombie before potentially destroying Liliana. Risky, but it's almost game over, and that Zombie was buffed with enchantments.

I try to give the designers the benefit of the doubt. People thought Inspired Charge giving +1 Defense until end of turn was a mistake until Rabid Bite made the "Fight" power known. Sadly, there's no Green/White Planeswalker to use the two cards together, but point is, I assume intent.

Which is why I could be convinced that "Move to... space" is designed to be a different thing than "Move" and "Place" because it requires an actual change of spaces.

I might actually be making the wording seem worse than it is by over speculating about what "Move to" means
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  #19  
Old May 19th, 2021, 05:20 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

@toyhandle good point. So if both the move AND Pass through Stone is 0 move they yea it does matter. Honestly I am not sure, and not sure if a rules team can jump in and rule one way or another as MtG:AotV is dead. Basically decide one way or the other or roll a die. I am guessing that the power implies you must not end on the same space you started this power with so if you don't move yo don't get to do, such as the scenario above when double-engaged. As otherwise there is no reason the power has "If you do..." without the implication.
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Old May 19th, 2021, 05:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Nahiri, Fury in Stone

I'm going to assume that if they wanted a move of 0 as an option, they would have used "place."
"Move to" means more than 0, and the lack of unoccupied/empty wording means she can move onto a cryptolith and/or glyph.


EDIT:
The power is also called "Move Through Stone" which implies moving from one place to another.
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