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  #97  
Old January 7th, 2019, 04:31 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

The Varks definitely benefited from the lack of Range here. The strength of the Pack is that it can keep momentum up when other armies start losing position. They can take on losses way too fast sometimes. Definitely easier to maintain their advantages when they can strike first and strike hard, repeatedly.

Also, as pointed out in the other thread, even Braxas isn't a natural predator since she can only gas Small/Medium and the Wolves are Large.


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  #98  
Old January 7th, 2019, 08:42 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
I guess I did too good with my Varkaanan Wolf Pack (all melee squads and Heroes) and most people though they were overpowered due to low cost for stats and avoiding a lot of other powers due to the army being all Unique and Large figures, whcih probably caused some people to loose respect for C3V.
I had no respect for the customs anyway, I've had too much experience with player-designed units being unbalanced in other games. I haven't bothered looking at any of the customs here and in the unlikely event I ever run a tournament again no customs would be allowed.

I don't consider them overpowered due the cost for stats, they're not that great compared to a lot of vanilla units - except for the large size, that might nudge them into the upper tier I suppose.

What makes them unbalanced is that their bonding ability is nothing like the already powerful bonding that can be found in the vanilla game. It's way too flexible compared to normal bonding.

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  #99  
Old January 8th, 2019, 06:22 AM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by Marduk View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
I guess I did too good with my Varkaanan Wolf Pack (all melee squads and Heroes) and most people though they were overpowered due to low cost for stats and avoiding a lot of other powers due to the army being all Unique and Large figures, whcih probably caused some people to loose respect for C3V.
I had no respect for the customs anyway, I've had too much experience with player-designed units being unbalanced in other games. I haven't bothered looking at any of the customs here and in the unlikely event I ever run a tournament again no customs would be allowed.

I don't consider them overpowered due the cost for stats, they're not that great compared to a lot of vanilla units - except for the large size, that might nudge them into the upper tier I suppose.

What makes them unbalanced is that their bonding ability is nothing like the already powerful bonding that can be found in the vanilla game. It's way too flexible compared to normal bonding.
It makes me wonder just how much playtesting is really involved? I think it's great that the c3v is helping to keep the game alive and all but I as well prefer not having customs in tournaments.

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Last edited by outforblood; January 8th, 2019 at 06:59 AM.
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  #100  
Old January 8th, 2019, 09:24 AM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

They supposedly playtest about the same amount of hours as official playtesters dis, and they even more design for tournaments whereas official playtesters designed more for home games. However I did game system as I knew they would be stronger in melee tournament as they are about a B+/A- in normal tournaments.
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  #101  
Old January 8th, 2019, 11:30 AM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by outforblood View Post
It makes me wonder just how much playtesting is really involved? I think it's great that the c3v is helping to keep the game alive and all but I as well prefer not having customs in tournaments.
There's plenty of valid reasons to not use C3V in tournaments.

Maybe only a few of your attendees have any. Maybe none of your regulars are familiar with the cards, and don't want to have to do a bunch of research before showing up at a tournament. Maybe you just prefer to stick with what the official designers officially released.

I don't think you'd find many people (even C3V people) trying to disagree with that decision. You're the tournament director, and you get to choose what's best for your tournament scene.

But the claims that Varkaanans are overpowered or that the C3V doesn't do enough playtesting are simply unfounded. In rankings that consider C3V customs, the Varkaanans are mostly tier 7 (the 4th best tier), or B+.

There are many melee armies that are better: Knights+Sir Gilbert, Greenscales+Braxas, Heavy Gruts+Grimnak, Axegrinders+Darrak+Mogrimm, Romans+MDG+NGS.

There's many more that are at the same level: Nagrubs+TKN, Dividers, Blade Gruts+Grimnak, Minions, Sentinels, Greenscales+Charos.

Don't read this as a "you have to play C3V" post. I'd never try to force that on a tournament scene that wasn't my own. But I'd encourage you that we in the C3V are very very careful about releasing balanced and extensively playtested units, and the Varkaanans are no exception.
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  #102  
Old January 8th, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Thanks for chiming in @superfrog . From the 2 tournaments that we ran we only had 2 players using c3v units. It was interesting to see how they went up against the official ones. The scene here in Dayton seems to be picking back up again which is great. We even had a couple new Scapers show up. I myself prefer classic HS but maybe one day I'll work my way up to c3v.

Scape on.

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  #103  
Old January 8th, 2019, 12:13 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Quote:
Originally Posted by outforblood View Post
Thanks for chiming in @superfrog . From the 2 tournaments that we ran we only had 2 players using c3v units. It was interesting to see how they went up against the official ones. The scene here in Dayton seems to be picking back up again which is great. We even had a couple new Scapers show up. I myself prefer classic HS but maybe one day I'll work my way up to c3v.

Scape on.
That's quite a reasonable approach.

'Scape on indeed.
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  #104  
Old January 8th, 2019, 12:48 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

I might be one of the few people who enjoy using the C3V. oddly enough it was the emergence of the c3v scopes which brought me back to playing heroscape in my opinion they are keeping heroscape alive; fresh and new. Again this is just my opinion. Scape4Life
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  #105  
Old January 8th, 2019, 12:58 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Since I'm here... I added some more pics from the tournament! Check them out.
https://www.facebook.com/groups/1901...0896658936355/

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  #106  
Old January 8th, 2019, 01:34 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

I was one of the players who brought C3V to this tournament. I started learning about C3V and picking up some of the units a couple of months ago. First of all, I have to say that they are super fun to play and definitely add some freshness to the Heroscape universe. Another advantage is that many of the figures are really inexpensive, and the way classic Heroscape prices are going this makes it easier for people to add to their collections without breaking the bank. For example, one of the units I brought to Dayton was Mok who is an insanely cool giant that can be purchased right now for ~$10. And his dwarf buddies can be had for $1-2 a piece. Of course there are some rare C3V out there that are nearly impossible to find and cost a pretty penny, but there are certainly many that are just the opposite.

I also have to second the sentiment of superfrog and say that from my experience so far the C3V typically does an incredible job of balancing their official units. The amount of playtesting and debate that goes into each one before they are given the seal of approval appears to be quite extensive. Just go over to the C3V section of the forums and see for yourself how involved the process is. I know some of it is behind closed doors, but from what is viewable to the public it is clearly very rigorous and designed to prevent units from being OP. Are some of the C3V units 'A' units? Yes. Are there maybe even a few 'A+' units? Yes. But to me that's not any different than classic where you've got Raelin, Q9, rats etc.. Are some of the C3V units going to excel in particular formats, such as melee only? Yes. But again, to me that's no different than classic scape.

I'll finish by saying that if a tournament were to be classic units only that wouldn't keep me from being excited about it or attending (Looking at you Dayton 'Back to Basics"). However, my hope is that people will give the C3V a fair and complete chance before writing them off.
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  #107  
Old January 8th, 2019, 02:32 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

Well said @Tiamat . Allowing c3v units in a tourney definitely will not dull my excitement or stop me from attending. I just love to play.

SCAPE OR DIE!
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  #108  
Old January 8th, 2019, 02:49 PM
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Re: DAYTON, OH. "BACK TO BASICS" tourney coming soon!!

I wanted to wait to post in here regarding C3V since I wasn’t able to attend, I wasn’t leaving my fiance at home while she had a nasty infection... we were even at the ER until 2 AM the night before because of a medication issue.

I’m pretty much down for anything. Mixed Marvel, C3G (even if I only have random heroclix dudes), C3V, Classic Only, Everything, Scytaleverse, outforbloodverse... you get the picture.

From my experience:
If you haven’t played against an army type before, odds are you will be ‘shocked’ by that build. You can’t effectively fight it. If someone brought Firestorm to this event, they could easily taken the event hands down. Firestorm can be built to be pure Classic, and is a nightmare for a melee only army to fight since it consists of only Heroes. Many folks have played agaimst Elementals, but Firestorm is something else.

At the last NE Ohio tournement we visited, our friend Nick played Samurai and Ebon Armor (c3v). That army is largely horrible in competitive. He still managed to beat Tina’s Hive+Stingers because Tina never battled against Ebon Armor. I beat Nick’s skull in at the event, but I’ve played the Ebons before.

The Varks are in the same boat. They are such a unique army that the only way to compete against them is to play once or twice against them. Rest assured, this army is way more difficult to play than to fight. I practiced with them about 10 times until I had ‘em down for a bring 2 Tournement. In that event, I played them twice and still almost lost those two games. I played my lovable Heavy Gruts in the rest of the battles.

And besides, didn’t anyone bring Nilfy? He was legal according the OP? If anything, he was probably one of the best things for this format.

Also, congrats to Lefton4ya. I hope everyone had fun regardless. Looking forward to March, we’ll see if we can make it!

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