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  #1873  
Old August 8th, 2017, 10:33 PM
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DewNoHarm DewNoHarm is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

I appreciate all of the comments so far. I'll just respond to them and give my plan for revisions.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post

On a more thematic level I don't like that his base move is 6. 5 is more traditional for for a warrior hero like him (he's not a speedy ninja), and bringing him up to 7 move seems like too much even in his youth.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I also agree that 6 Move is thematically too high for the unit. 5 Move is more appropriate for the mini and class. I suspect that the Inner Sanctum would agree, perhaps enough to vote the submission down if submitted as is. I suspect a change to Move 5 would make that much of a difference, given the limited usefulness of the filler fellow.
Two firm votes against a move of 6. I totally hear you. Like I said, I originally had him at a move of 5, but playtesting suggested he'd be a lot more effective at 6 move. However, I realize that Jandar heroes (e.g., Alastair Macdirk, Sir Gilbert, Sgt. Drake Alexander, etc.) are mostly at 5 move. So in my revision he'll definitely go back to 5 move.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Ixe View Post
I'm also not in love with his bonuses carrying into his next turn like that. In general I prefer to keep clear of potential memory issues although this is more of an issue in principal than practice.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I agree with Ixe about the "until next turn" bit being a little problematic. It feels like the power should last until the next round, like similar powers like Frost Rage do. They use the revealed 'X' order marker as the indicator that the power is active so as to avoid the memory mechanic. Still, there is precedence for one-turn powers with Estivara. I recommend you look there for wording.
I agree with Ixe and Scytale that that there might be a memory issue with Recall Youth's Strength and that the wording is still a little bit clunky.

I would totally love to make the power like Frost Rage or Crag of Steel as per Scytale's suggestion! I would be totally willing to change the wording and do that. However, I hesitate to make it an entire round after a revealed OM + X, because I think that's too strong a bonus for a 10-point figure. What do you think? Would that be too strong?

(The other issue with making Recall Youth's Strength like Frost Rage or Crag of Steel is the factor of Johann's age in his theme/bio. I just don't see this grizzled warrior being able to sustain the glory of his youthful days for 3 turns, for example.)

For now, I'll check out Estivara and try to clean this power up in a revision. The power was meant to give him a temporary boost without making the boost too strong for a 10-point figure.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I also worry a little bit about the chosen number for the shield bash. While it may be technically balanced okay it may be a touch too likely for a unit of his cost.
I could raise it to 13 (or possibly even 14), but I think that's the upper-limit as far as allowing the power to be useful (within a melee figure framework). 13 would put it above James Murphy's Whip power, but still below MBS's paralyzing stare. What do you think would sit best with the SOV judges? (13, 14, 15)? I'm willing to revise this to make him most acceptible.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
I would have preferred that you tighten the design to just one of the two powers, but having both isn't particularly bad.
I could do that. However, I think he needs both powers to be playable (and don't forget about fun - I think that D20 powers always add to the fun element of Heroscape). Further, the other two 10-point fillers have three powers. I figured that two powers was probably acceptable.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Aside from that, it's a solid design. The powers are pretty clean and useful, and it's nice to see more potential filler options.
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheAverageFan View Post
Being a 10-point Valiant figure alone gives him at least some competition with Isamu in the drafting stage.
~TAF
I appreciate these positive comments too. My goal was to present a solid, playtested, figure that respected the lore of heroscape while also adding something unique. Hopefully, after some revision, he will have a shot at becoming a 10-point Jandar filler.

Thank you for your time. I will revise him after any further comments.
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  #1874  
Old August 9th, 2017, 09:40 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by DewNoHarm View Post
I would totally love to make the power like Frost Rage or Crag of Steel as per Scytale's suggestion! I would be totally willing to change the wording and do that. However, I hesitate to make it an entire round after a revealed OM + X, because I think that's too strong a bonus for a 10-point figure. What do you think? Would that be too strong?
It would be too strong for 10pts, since you won't use him until you're pretty much out of other units anyway. That also would make it dull, as there would be practically no reason not to put the 'X' on him and use it immediately.
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  #1875  
Old August 9th, 2017, 10:41 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Maybe it would simplify it to make it for just the turn he's taking, drop the defence boost since it's just for his turn and bump his defence to 3.

Really, though, I love the look of this guy!


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  #1876  
Old August 9th, 2017, 01:56 PM
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DewNoHarm DewNoHarm is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by DewNoHarm View Post
I would totally love to make the power like Frost Rage or Crag of Steel as per Scytale's suggestion! I would be totally willing to change the wording and do that. However, I hesitate to make it an entire round after a revealed OM + X, because I think that's too strong a bonus for a 10-point figure. What do you think? Would that be too strong?
It would be too strong for 10pts, since you won't use him until you're pretty much out of other units anyway. That also would make it dull, as there would be practically no reason not to put the 'X' on him and use it immediately.
I agree. Too strong. I won't do that.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
Maybe it would simplify it to make it for just the turn he's taking, drop the defence boost since it's just for his turn and bump his defence to 3.

Really, though, I love the look of this guy!
Thanks for the suggestion and the encouragement Lazy Orang. Increasing the base defense and dropping defense from the special power would certainly simplify things. I'm not sure whether that would make him too strong for a 10-point figure, though. I'll have to think about (and maybe play test) that suggestion.
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  #1877  
Old August 9th, 2017, 02:57 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Otonashi has 3 defense...so it's not unheard of.
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  #1878  
Old August 9th, 2017, 04:20 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

3 Defence really isn't hard to crack, and, as Sir Heroscape said, Otonashi already has it - he'd certainly still be much more killable than Isamu!


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  #1879  
Old August 10th, 2017, 12:27 PM
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DewNoHarm DewNoHarm is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Otonashi has 3 defense...so it's not unheard of.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
3 Defence really isn't hard to crack, and, as Sir Heroscape said, Otonashi already has it - he'd certainly still be much more killable than Isamu!
You are both right. I'll work on getting that in the revision. It's probably the simplest way to fix the wording on "Recall Youth's Strength". Thanks for the idea.
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  #1880  
Old August 11th, 2017, 09:35 PM
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DewNoHarm DewNoHarm is offline
 
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Thank you to everyone for all of the comments! They've helped a lot. After all of the input, here is the revised version of Johann Graybeard:



I'd welcome any additional comments and suggestions for revision over the weekend. Then it's back to play testing for Johann Graybeard.

Thanks for the helpful experience I've had with my first custom.
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  #1881  
Old August 14th, 2017, 11:16 AM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

@DewNoHarm I liked him before the revisions, I like him even better now. All the changes made sense, both for sake of theme and simplicity. Isamu obviously beats him in a vacuum, but he fills a few roles that Isamu does not. Good stuff.
I look forward to how he does in testing now (you can count on me to be part of that sometimes)!
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  #1882  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:39 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

[Deleted]

Last edited by bmon; September 22nd, 2017 at 01:00 PM. Reason: Improper use of this thread
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  #1883  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:49 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by bmon View Post
I'd like a review of an ability I'm trying to perfect on one of my customs. I'm not sure my customs would ever be good enough or interesting enough to be worthy of the SoV, so my apologies if this is an exploitation of this thread's purpose. I value the opinions here and wasn't sure if I should start a whole new thread just for this discussion. Feel free to direct me otherwise.
Per the OP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by greygnarl View Post
the goal of this thread is to get people a chance to have their customs examined before they are submitted to the SoV.
-bold added

Truthfully, anyone can choose to give you feedback or not, but I do think it was explicitly clear in the OP to post here with units that are ready for or being prepared for the SoV and you're seeking some final advice before moving on. I think if your goal is to get help with a custom, you really should keep that to your personal customs thread, otherwise people will come here seeking help on all their customs whether or not they plan on submitting to the SoV, and that's just not fair to the judges who do try to stay active here and helping people with their final preparations before submitting their work.
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  #1884  
Old September 22nd, 2017, 12:58 PM
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Re: The Pre-SoV Workshop

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sir Heroscape View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by bmon View Post
I'd like a review of an ability I'm trying to perfect on one of my customs. I'm not sure my customs would ever be good enough or interesting enough to be worthy of the SoV, so my apologies if this is an exploitation of this thread's purpose. I value the opinions here and wasn't sure if I should start a whole new thread just for this discussion. Feel free to direct me otherwise.
Per the OP...

Quote:
Originally Posted by greygnarl View Post
the goal of this thread is to get people a chance to have their customs examined before they are submitted to the SoV.
-bold added

Truthfully, anyone can choose to give you feedback or not, but I do think it was explicitly clear in the OP to post here with units that are ready for or being prepared for the SoV and you're seeking some final advice before moving on. I think if your goal is to get help with a custom, you really should keep that to your personal customs thread, otherwise people will come here seeking help on all their customs whether or not they plan on submitting to the SoV, and that's just not fair to the judges who do try to stay active here and helping people with their final preparations before submitting their work.
Fair enough. Consider it redacted. I don't have a personal customs thread and never really considered one.

Thanks!
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