The Book of Robin (Tim Drake) (Young Justice)

[IAmBatman]

Sounds good.

[Lord Pyre]

C3G STANDARD PLAYTEST FEEDBACK FORM

NAME OF THE PLAYTEST UNIT: Robin


Army Test
Summary: So Robin here was technically testing at 180 points. He felt pretty balanced. At first I was worried when Superboy went down fast, but Wrecker did also. I feel like he’s pretty balanced so far, might want to lower SOMETHING on him to get him closer to 150, but he’s really cool and useful so far.
Map: Custom
Units: Robin, Aqualad, Starfire, Superboy (800)

Vs.

Wrecking Crew

Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Robin grabs height, and Superboy immediately deals 5 wounds to Wrecker. Bulldozer kills Superboy! Robin investigates Wrecker, and he can’t damage him but Aqualad kills him with his Lightning. Robin Deduces Thunderball, and deals a wound.Starfire deals 4 wounds to Thunderball using Aqualad’s wounds. Starfire ends up kills Thunderball next turn, and Bulldozer and Piledriver team up to kill Starfire in one turn. Bulldozer wounds Aqualad, and Piledriver pummels Robin with 2 attacks, killing him. Aqualad puts up a fight but still falls.

Damage Dealt: 1 wound to Bulldozer. 1 wound to Thunderball. 3 wounds to Piledriver.

Teen Leader: Used nearly every turn until his death. 3 attack was a good call here, he nearly always had height.

Tactical Deduction: Used most of the time. It’s not a huge bonus, and they have to be near Tim for it to work, which didn’t always happen, but it helped Starfire to kill Thunderball!

Bat Grapple: It’s Bat-grapple. He ran away a few times and grabbed heigh a few times. Always useful!



Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Bulldozer with 1 wound, Piledriver with 5 wounds.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Summary: Pretty brutal game. Johnny started out dealing plenty of autowounds, helping kill Superboy quickly. The Titans couldn’t keep up after that. The FF rolled some hot defense. Robin himself barely helped, even his defense reductions didn’t add much.
Map: Custom
Units: Robin (170), Changeling, Raven, Starfire, Superboy (1000)

Vs.

Fantastic Four

Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Robin grabs height, with Superboy close by. Johnny takes a risk and uses Flame On on Changeling and Superboy, but is outside the force field, so Robin deals 2 wounds to him. Changeling flies over to Sue but misses. Sue and Ben kill Changeling. Johnny uses Flame On to hit Raven and kill Superboy. Raven flies next to Robin and kills Johnny. Thing rushes Robin and deals 3 wounds. Starfire engages Reed with her bonus from Robin’s wounds. The FF then quickly clean house, killing Starfire, Raven then Robin all in a row.

Damage Dealt: 1 wound to Ben. 2 wounds to Johnny.

Teen Leader: Used each turn, but he could help much against the FF’s defense.

Tactical Deduction: Used by Robin to deal a wound to Johnny. Used on Reed to help Starfire but she missed.




Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Reed with 2 wounds, Ben with 1 wound, Sue with 0 wounds.

___________________________________________________________

Army Test
Summary: Good game. The Xmen had some bad luck, not being able to kill Starfire. The Titans pulled a win, but it’s solely because Starfire couldn’t be put down. Robin was useful, but again he really SHOULD have died much earlier.
Map: Custom
Units: Robin (170), Aqualad (Kaldur), Tempest, Starfire, Superboy (1000)

Vs.

X-Men

Spoiler Alert!

Recap: Iceman moves up, killing Aqualad in one hit. Jean grabs him and tosses him close, dealing a wound. Robin grabs height, with Cyclops chasing him. Iceman, Jean, and Tempest quickly follow. Starfire rushes forward, killing Jean in one turn with 2 attacks. Starfire deals 3 wounds to Beast. Beast Negotiates with Tempest. Beast Negotiates with Starfire. Superboy protects Robin from Beast’s attack. Starfire disengages, taking a wound, but flies away from Beast. Robin reduces Beast’s defense, Starfire kills Cyclops, then shoots Beast, but only deals one wound. Beast kills Superboy. Robin kills Beast. Starfire rushes Prof X, but he blocks it. Angel flies him away during her next turn, and then Iceman starts pummeling Robin. Starfire kills Prof X. They finish up Angel quick enough afterwards.

Damage Dealt: 4 wounds to Iceman (killing him). 1 wound to Cyclops. 1 wound to Beast (killing him).

Teen Leader: Used lots, definitely useful, but he survived because of Superboy and because Starfire is such a big thread.

Tactical Deduction: Used a few times, never helped deal a wound though.


[/B]

Who won? List figures remaining in the winning army (include life remaining for heroes): Robin with 3 wounds, Tempest with 2 wounds, Starfire with 4 wounds..

___________________________________________________________

THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT'S COST, BALANCE, & DRAFTABILITY: .I like him. His bonding is obviously great. He doesn’t feel overpowered. I thought Deduction would be better than it is, but right now it’s just a cool bonus. He really should be killed much quicker than he was in my games. He’s not strong but if you ignore him his attacks will add up. I think he’s going to end up around 150-160.

GENERAL THOUGHTS ON THE TESTED UNIT:
Fun. Definitely a cool new way to play Titans. He feels weaker than Nightwing (But costs much less). They feel a bit neutered at the moment, but it’s a good start to a new batch of Titans.

[Lord Pyre]

Alright, one game in so far! He feels good at 180, but that's a bit high for my liking. I could forge ahead, and see where he ends up, or I could do a tweak. Wrecking Crew matches are inherently swingy.



A possible tweak would be to change Deduction to one defense-lower per turn. It's main usefulness here was to let Starfire wreck Thunderball. She was engaged and had height, so she threw 3 attacks of 6 at him with his defense lower. It was pretty nasty. That might be a good idea for balance reasons regardless!

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

No way is he worth over 200 with those stats. I do think the calculator should be taken with a grain of salt, it's been fairly off for my designs recently.

*cough* This was before the drop from 4 attack to 3 by LP and LP says he's feeling like 180.

Not saying the calculator is perfect at all, but I think it does a pretty good job of getting a reasonable range on things early.

[Lord Pyre]

There is something to be said about potential risk of figures too. If Robin was chucking 4-5 dice, Bulldozer would have charged him instead of Starfire at one point. He stuck around since he WAS weaker and less of an immediate threat.

Either way I’m going to make that Deduction change, tweak him down a little more and see how it feels.

[Arch-vile]

No more votes, Bats says, but he's happy to give Archie sass.

[japes]

I wouldn't be in too much of a rush to start nerfing him. And I don't see how you can even compare Nightwings leadership power with this. Nightwing gives two consecutive turns to any Titan/Sidekick...Tim gives you an extra turn with only one Sidekick...with a single attack of 3.

Plus it didn't appear that the Wrecking crew really went off in that match but seemed to win pretty decently. Just cautioning against any drastic changes at this point.

[Lord Pyre]

COMPETITIVE REVIEW BOARD CHECKLIST

Spoiler Alert!

1. Does the design disrupt opponent's Order Markers in a way that offers a net gain in turns taken with strong figures versus the turns your opponent can take with strong figures (Ozymandias, Joker (I), Meteorite)?
   
   Nope
   
2. Does the design offer auto-wounding that either doesn't require taking turns or is otherwise extremely efficient (War Machine, Jason Voorhees, Cosmic Cube)?
   
   Nope
   
3. Does the design immobilize figures or prevent turn-taking (Blob, Spider-Girl, Diablo, Green Lantern Alan)?
   
   Nope
   
4. Does the design move opponent's figures in a way that's easy to pull off and can move figures multiple spaces in multiple directions (Graviton, Magneto, Vulture)?
   
   Nope
   
5. Does the design allow for moving friendly figures without taking turns, or for moving 2+ friendly figures while still taking a turn (Martian Manhunter [I], Green Lantern John, Angel)?
   
   Nope
   
6. Does the figure allow for two figures, one of them being a wide range of possible figures, to both attack on a single Order Marker (Zombie, Robot, Iron Patriot, Ms. Marvel, Rocket [II], Martian Manhunter [II], Nebula, Baby Groot, Havok)?
   
   Yes, Robin himself takes a turn with every Sidekick and Titan. But being an attack of 3 range 4, it's not terribly scary.
   
7. Does the design offer any sort of passive boost outside of a narrow set of figures (Star-Lord, Sage, Brainiac 5, Captain America, Batman [III])?
   
   Once per round he can lower an opponent's defense once. Nothing huge.
   
8. Does the design help keep your allies alive just by being nearby (Daring Decoy, Aaron Cash, Jocasta, Weather Wizard)?
   
   Nope
   
9. Is it OK for the design to have defensive abilities that could make it essentially unkillable in some matchups or endgame situations (Cosmic Cube, Healing Factor, Master Martial Artist)?
   
   N/A
   
10. If the figure has auto-destroy powers or powers that can force the opponent's figures to attack each other, are they balanced for strong opposing figures and/or boosts that can make the powers more reliable (Puppet Master, Psycho-Man, Enchantress)?
    
    N/A
    
11. Is the figure likely to earn its value many times over by either running out alone at the start of a battle (pre-eval Crow, Solomon Grundy) or by sitting in the startzone until the end of a battle (Arnim Zola, Silk Spectre)?
    
    Nope
    
12. Will synergies in the design create concerns for future designs (Mad Thinker, pre-eval Enchantress, Star-Lord)?
    
    Doubt it
    
13. Does the design combo particularly well with one of the design concerns above (Magma)?
    
    Nope

CONSISTENCY CHECKLIST (SHORT FORM)

Spoiler Alert!

Consistency Concerns
Name and Identity
Verify character is named in a way that is clear, accurate and feels consistent with the way other characters are named.

Yep

Uniqueness and Type
Verify that the power text reflects the listed uniqueness and type, that the uniqueness fits the character, and that squad size is listed for squads.

Yep

Left Box
If the character's species, class or personality is reused, verify that the character feels thematically consistent with other figures that have that species, class or personality. If they are not reused, verify that there is no pre-existing species, class or personality that would make more sense.

Yep

Size and Height
Verify that the listed size and height are accurate. Standing the mini up next to a stack of tiles, and a few other minis of various sizes, is encouraged.

Yep, same as Robin I

Super Strength and Flying
Verify that these special powers are present if they make sense, and not if they don't.

Yep

New Powers - Names
Verify that any new powers are not using power names identical to, or very similar to, pre-existing powers. Verify that any new powers are actually new and not old powers with new names.

Yep

New Powers - Effects
Verify that the effect and timing of all new powers is clear. Verify that any logical immunities, benefits, or weaknesses (whether those be necessary for thematic or mechanical reasons) are implemented: consider whether defensive powers that work against normal attacks should also work against special attacks, whether or not a power has an elemental component that some figures should resist, and whether or not unliving figures (such as Undead and Androids) should be affected.

Pretty basic stuff.

Reused Powers
Verify that the design is reusing powers in place of creating new ones, where reused powers could implement the same theme and mechanics with no differences or only trivial differences. Verify that any reused powers have the correct text.

Grapple is a reuse

Power Level
Verify that the character's movement, attack, range, and defense (in conjunction with any special powers that enhance those stats) feel consistent with the capabilities of characters with analogous powers and abilities. Verify that the character falls into a similar point range to characters with comparative powers and abilities.

Working on it!

[Lord Pyre]

Game 2 is in! He's definitely not amazing. His attack is nice, but nothing amazing. Definitely feeling the hurt of not bringing Nightwing! I think Robin will be good about 150-160 so far. We'll see what the last test brings!

And once Wonder Girl is done I think Robin will feel much better!

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Arch-vile

No more votes, Bats says, but he's happy to give Archie sass.

Some things are just too important.

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

Game 2 is in! He's definitely not amazing. His attack is nice, but nothing amazing. Definitely feeling the hurt of not bringing Nightwing! I think Robin will be good about 150-160 so far. We'll see what the last test brings!

And once Wonder Girl is done I think Robin will feel much better!

Sweet! Seems like you're honing in here.

[Lord Pyre]

Done! I changed Deduction to be once per player turn, so Starfire can't make full use of it. I want to send him out at 160. They technically won the last game, but it was all Starfire, and the X-Men's incapability of killing her for some reason.

I propose we move to publis testing at 160!

[tcglkn]

Yea