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Old April 10th, 2022, 10:17 AM
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Re: The Book of Jace Beleren, Mindmage

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Originally Posted by toyhandle View Post
A few intertwined questions:
Quote:
MIND STEALER
At the end of Jace's turn, you may choose target Planeswalker within 4 clear sight spaces of Jace. Roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 16 or higher, you control that Planeswalker and you may use abilities, move, and attack with the Planeswalker. Afterward, return control of the Planeswalker.
Does Mind Stealer allow you to use Activated Abilities while you control the chosen Planeswalker?
I would think so, otherwise, why would it mention abilities?

Here is Mind Control, and its FAQ. Mind control is "move and attack," but not abilities:
Quote:
Mind Control
Sorcery

You may move and attack with target squad creature an opponent controls that is within 4 clear sight spaces of a blue Planeswalker you control.
Spoiler Alert!

The FAQ is odd, because it claims you are taking control of the figure, even though the power doesn't say that outside of its name. Is that because you can't move and attack with figures you don't control?

The FAQ for Mind Control also states no using Activated Abilities. I'm assuming you may still use static and passive abilities, like Flying.

If Mind Control specifies "move and attack," and Mind Stealer specifies "abilities, move, and attack," does that indicate that "abilities" in Mind Stealer covers all eligible abilities?

When you choose a Planeswalker for Mind Stealer, is that essentially the same thing choosing a Planeswalker on Action 2?

Is "use abilities, move and attack" the same thing as taking a "turn" with that Planeswalker? Or are you just being allowed a selection of actions to take?

The two Activated Abilities the rule books identify are these, which have a key difference: Snuff Out is "once per turn," and Transform is "At the end of Arlinn Kord's turn"
Quote:
SNUFF OUT
Destroy target squad creature that has 1 or more damage markers and is within 6 clear sight spaces of Liliana. Use this ability once per turn.
Quote:
TRANSFORM
At the end of Arlinn Kord's turn, you may transform her into Arlinn, Moon-Blessed. If you do, replace the Arlinn Kord figure with the Arlinn, Moon-Blessed figure.
So when Mind Steal is used on Liliana, have I "activated" her, allowing me to use Snuff Out, because it's an open ended "once per turn?"

If so, can I use Transform? Or can I not because I haven't met the "Arlinn Kord's turn" requirement?

Thanks!
Thanks for posting this! To add my thoughts - "control" is never explicitly defined within the SOI rulebook (or any of the AotP rulebooks AFAIK.) Control is mentioned once in SOI at pg 8, under Leaving an engagement, and I think this is mostly why Hasbro says that Mind Control confers control to the player that is moving & attacking with the brainwashed creature - if control is not exchanged, the Mind Control player would then be able to use their own figures as pillars to spam LEAs against the very creature they are moving and attacking with! Control isn't mentioned ever again other than in reference to glyphs' effects, team games, and in scenarios - these 3 items are much closer toward the end of the rulebook where IMO they don't really add a whole lot to the already nearly non-existent definition of "control."

Jace B's Mind Stealer might be the only card/ability in AotP that mentions in text that the control of anything ever explicitly changes. In some ways we can infer that being "in control" of a figure has something to do with making decisions regarding one (or multiple) of a figure's execution of: activated abilities, movement, and/or attack.

It's totally backwards that we must refer to a card (like Jace's) in order to make claims/rulings about what "control" means (because in most games the base rules are laid out in a rulebook, and then cards/entities within the game will tell you if/how they break the base rules of the game - this typically how a developer creates unique & interesting characteristics/play styles) but Jace's card might be THE ONLY WRITTEN TEXT in AotP that makes any remote association of what the definition of control may have been intended to be.

"Control" in MTGTCG is defined as "the system that determines who gets to use an object in the game." I suppose if we are ok with filling the AotP void with an MTG definition AND we define the sorcery Mind Control as a "system that determines who gets to use (move and/or attack with) an object (figure in our case)" then yes, we could say that the player that is making this determination (regarding how the figure is utilizing the move and attack,) is indeed in control.

Last edited by Unhinged Manchild; April 10th, 2022 at 11:26 AM.
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