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  #97  
Old January 28th, 2019, 12:18 AM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

There's been a lot of talk about a multi-attacking power of some sort, but depending on how potent the synergy we give her is I think we have to be careful. My initial thought for something clean and simple was:

Lone Wolf (or any such less hackneyed power name)
If [figure name] is attacking a figure that is not engaged with any other figure you control, add [2, 3?] dice to [figure name]'s attack.

I think this could actually work really well with the leadership power Tornado suggested. We could consider expanding that power to Ullar units, or just Ullar squads, or any other tweaks depending on the direction we want to take, but those two powers with or without snow and ice enhanced movement might make for a very simple but tactically interesting figure.

That said, I could also see such a design appearing rather unexciting, so I'm all ears if someone has something flashier to suggest.
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  #98  
Old January 28th, 2019, 10:53 AM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Honestly I just think it depends on where we want the focus to be. If we have a complex leadership power I want a simple combat power and vice versa.
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  #99  
Old January 28th, 2019, 12:12 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

I still like Tornado's idea for +1 move to Common Elves while she's engaged. That is both useful for the two Elf squads (since Warriors of Ashra suffer from poor mobility and the Archers can benefit multiple times with Frenzy) and very thematic for the idea of fast elves, which makes sense for one riding a wolf. Its power is balanced by the need to keep the rider engaged, though, which could result in some interesting tension.

We could even tie this to either an aggressive (such as AYP's proposed Lone Wolf) or defensive power based on engagement. Something like the Varkaanan Blade Dancers' Blade Defense could be really effective here, and incentivize the player to try to keep her engaged at all times, for example, which necessitates alternating Order Markers.
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  #100  
Old January 28th, 2019, 12:16 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Well met!

The combat power ideas I've previously presented:

Wellspring Spear Special Attack
Range 2, Attack 3
When Theya attacks with Wellspring Spear Special Attack, she may attack a second time. If she inflicts at least one wound with each attack, [she may attack one additional time].

Range is debatable and I'm sure there is a better, more thematic reward for wounding with each attack . . .

Passing Slash Special Attack
Range 1, Attack 4
Theya may attack [twice] with Passing Slash Special Attack before, during or after she moves. She will take no leaving engagement attacks when using Passing Slash Special Attack.

Rending Riposte
If Theya is attacked with a normal attack and no skulls are rolled by the attacker, the attacker receives a wound.

Natural Blind
If [Elf hero] begins her turn unengaged and adjacent to an Evergreen or Jungle Bush [or on a Snow space], after moving and before attacking with her normal attack, roll a 20-sided die. On a roll of 13 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound.


Now that she's not a Warlord:

Third Eye
All Wizards with Range 4 or higher within 4 spaces of [Elf hero] add 2 to their Range.

Wizards' Defender
If a Wizard within 4 spaces of [Elf hero] is attacked by an opponent's figure with a normal attack by an adjacent figure, you may move [Elf hero] adjacent to that opponent's figure and roll a 20-sided die. On a roll of 13 or higher, the opponent's figure receives a wound. [Elf hero] will take any leaviing engagement attacks when using Wizard's Defender.



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  #101  
Old January 28th, 2019, 07:51 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Some thoughts:

Range is a component of the design that we could probably still stand to flesh out. Spears in Heroscape don't really have a consistent portrayal, so for me it's about looking at the specifics of the figure. I see what looks like a double-ended and slightly ornamental spear more than a javelin or anything else balanced for throwing. Plus, a lot of the directions we're currently considering care about getting her into engagement. Adding range to that to me takes the tension in the design too far, when its already asking you to split your order markers.

The distinction between an offensive and defensive power is an interesting one that will better define the unit's role. With a defensive power along with synergy, the unit becomes more of a pure cheerleader, but in the direction we're going she becomes one that protects herself by being on the front lines rather than having other units protect her. With an offensive power, she turns into something of a hybrid menacer/cheerleader that requires careful play but for potentially high reward. @superfrog submitted something fairly similar to this to the SoV with his Agrah Fenn design awhile back, and while I'll note that it did not make it through the process, it was recognized as having some solid ideas and still being a well-designed unit overall.

For offensive powers, though, I think we should be careful about multi-hitting special attacks. Figures with those are usually worth the investment for offensive potential alone, and I don't want to put too much utility on one card. That said, I don't mind this figure coming in with a pretty high point value, I think that would be appropriate for the miniature and for the type of design we are trying to make. Some sort of autowounding power that represents the wolf I don't mind, although I still haven't seen a version that really grabs me.

As for elf wizard synergy, it's a neat concept but I'm pretty firmly against it. To me, the elf wizards are fine in the self-contained package they already form. Having this figure synergize with them would severely limit her viable builds and would be a difficult balancing act of making her worthwhile while not outclassing the wizards themselves. It's a nice suggestion, but I don't think it's the direction we should take.
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  #102  
Old January 28th, 2019, 09:28 PM
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Smile Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Well met!

To simulate the danger of getting too close to the Wolf and/or the spear in the simplest way, how about Engagement Strike 13?
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  #103  
Old January 29th, 2019, 05:04 AM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

For an Elf following Ullar I think the theme of bonding is to add to health and or movement (Acolarh does both, Atlaga, Emirron and Mittens does one or the other).
If this is the way we're going I would opt for one of these...and I do life the idea of adding movement to the ladies of Ashra.
I also like @kolakoski idea of Engagement Strike 13 but why not give the wolf an attack over and above the riders' attack? A range 1 attack 2 extra attack.

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Last edited by AMIS; January 29th, 2019 at 05:05 AM. Reason: Call the wolf Tuck...that way the attack could be called Tuck and Nip...okay maybe not.
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  #104  
Old January 30th, 2019, 05:39 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Nice progress here. I still like the idea of a wolf howl buffing the nearby elves in some way. A movement buff could be represented this way -- as a call to charge.
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  #105  
Old January 30th, 2019, 05:44 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
I still like Tornado's idea for +1 move to Common Elves while she's engaged. That is both useful for the two Elf squads (since Warriors of Ashra suffer from poor mobility and the Archers can benefit multiple times with Frenzy) and very thematic for the idea of fast elves, which makes sense for one riding a wolf. Its power is balanced by the need to keep the rider engaged, though, which could result in some interesting tension.
Me too but it was Lazy_Orang's idea, I just put it in power form.

Lots of cool ideas.
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  #106  
Old February 17th, 2019, 05:00 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

Looks like it's been a little while since this thread has seen activity. I just wanted to give it a quick jumpstart in case people are still interested.
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  #107  
Old February 21st, 2019, 10:15 PM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

I would also be happy to continue running this (my time was diverted by CoN, and I apologize for neglecting this in my split of attention). I think, however, that in order to do so we need a clearer structure of how this project should proceed. We have, at this point, a pretty clear direction along with plenty of powers that could be combined to create any number of perfectly functional cards. If I were to arbitrarily just pick one possibility for us to pursue, it wouldn't really be in the spirit of the project.

So, what I suggest is as follows: any number of people in the community may submit drafts and then they will be held to a public vote. My inclination is that the drafts need not adhere to the current points of consensus listed in the second post, but are advised to use them as a guide. The winner of the vote will take the lead on the design themselves (or defer the lead, if they wish, to whomever they choose) and carry it through further scrutiny, refinements, and testing by the community. C3G's public design process is the method I am most familiar with, so I suspect that this method would mirror it closely.

Rather than just launch right into that, though, I would prefer some discussion. Do we think this is a good way to proceed, or are there other suggestions for how we should do so? Should drafts be voted on anonymously? Any other points of discussion you can think of we should entertain now, and once that conversation dies down we can move on to whatever process we choose for getting a complete design draft to take forward.
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  #108  
Old February 22nd, 2019, 04:47 AM
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Re: Boot Camp of Valhalla Design Thread

The proposed route of going forward (creating drafts, and voting for one), sounds fair to me. It may be wise to allow voters to select up to 3 drafts, similar to how Dr Goomonkey generally does, when he remembers.

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