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Old May 21st, 2020, 12:38 PM
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The Workbook of Orcs of Moria - Design (Fellowship A)

THE WORKBOOK OF ORCS OF MORIA

DESIGNER = @capsocrates @Chris Perkins @Shiftrex

(SET NAME) - (COLLECTION NUMBER) - (PACK NAME)

FIGURE(S) USED FOR UNIT: (Insert name(s) and set of origin for figure(s) used for this design)
(Insert image(s) of figure(s) used for this design)

(CARD IMAGE)

NAME = ORCS OF MORIA
GENERAL = UTGAR
SPECIES = ORC
UNIQUENESS = COMMON SQUAD
CLASS = WARRIOR
PERSONALITY = VIOLENT
SIZE/HEIGHT = MEDIUM/5

LIFE = 1 (4 figures)
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 2
DEFENSE = 2
POINTS = 35


CAVE DWELLER 1
If an Orc of Moria moves over at least three contiguous dungeon or shadow spaces, you may add an additional 1 space to his move. An Orc of Moria rolls 2 additional attack dice when attacking an adjacent figure or destructible object on at least one dungeon or shadow space.

ORCISH VIOLENCE
After taking a turn with the Orcs of Moria, you must roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-4, destroy a common Orc squad figure you control adjacent to an Orc Of Moria you control. If you roll an 18 or higher, inflict one wound on an opponent's figure adjacent to an Orc of Moria you control.



Character Bio: (Insert Character Bio here)

-RULINGS and CLARIFICATIONS-
(Insert questions and answers about unit function and/or power interpretation)

-COMBINATIONS and SYNERGIES-

Synergy Benefits Received
(Insert links to figures that benefit the unit, and short explanation of synergy)

Synergy Benefits Offered
(Insert links to figures that this unit benefits, and a short explanation of synergy)

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Last edited by capsocrates; September 15th, 2020 at 10:36 AM.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 12:38 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

What went into Design on 2020-06-12:
Spoiler Alert!

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Last edited by capsocrates; June 12th, 2020 at 06:54 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 12:39 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

Conversation so far, centering around Moria orc squads and possible hero ideas

Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
We could give the Moria orcs and archer goblins the same personality and do a bonding/synergy thing on both for common squads that have it.
Make them a more formidable combo for what might otherwise be low stat squads.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Splash View Post
We could give the Moria orcs and archer goblins the same personality and do a bonding/synergy thing on both for common squads that have it.
Make them a more formidable combo for what might otherwise be low stat squads.
Maybe the melee ones could have something like
ORC HORDE
After revealing an order marker and before taking a turn with the Moria Orcs, you may move up to four Orcs with the <name> personality up to 5 spaces each.
Like the Glads and Blasts, or Nakitas and Goriliinators, but melee moving the range instead. I don't want the ranged ones to be able to move figures because it is too good for them to be able to move their screen and attack on the same turn. I would stick with 2/2 for all of them. I envision the melee ones as a 4-figure squad.

I'm not sure the melee ones need another power. But maybe they do?

The ranged ones should be a 3-figure squad, but I'm not sure what their power should be.

I think we should figure out what Middle Earth orcs have in common. Is it a power? A personality or class? A particular stat line? Is it the Orc Horde power I mentioned above?

Does anyone remember any passages from the book that distinguished between the different kinds of orcs? Anyone have some time to go digging?

Are the Moria Orcs and Great Eye Orcs distinct enough to be separate cards or should we just have one card? A way to do this might be to make them a 3 figure squad and give them
ORC CAPTAIN BONDING
At the beginning of the game, select a general. For the rest of the game, after revealing an order marker on the Orcs of Middle Earth and before taking a turn with them, you may first take a turn with an Orc Captain that follows the chosen general.
I didn't want to do bonding for the orcs, but if we want to have just one card for all orc squads in Middle Earth, then we could use the Captains to make Moria Orcs feel different from Great Eye Orcs. Obviously Uruks would still be a separate card.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Perkins View Post
I think it's worth making 2 separate cards there. There are tons of orcs, after all. I suggest we call them "Goblins" & "Mordor Orcs".

I think it would be interesting if goblins got some form of boost for being on cave and/or shadow spaces, like perhaps a +2 move if they spend their whole turn on those spaces. Thematic of being strongest in Moria & underground the misty mountains.

Then the "Mordor Orcs" could get some form of bonding, as you described. Would make a big enough difference in playability; the mordor orcs are normally the stronger squad except on certain dungeon maps, like the stingers / drudge divide.

I also like the Goblins being able to move their archers, low cost / low point squad but there are a lot of them in play, which seems quite thematic.

So the set of Orc squad cards with this proposal would be:
Goblins
Goblin Archers
Mordor Orcs
Morder Orc Archers
Uruk-hai
Uruk-hai Crossbowmen

Their could be a height increase / size difference there too, perhaps goblins are 3 / small, orcs are 4 / medium, and uruk-hai are 5 / medium.
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Fellowship of the Ring, Book 2, Chapter 5 The Bridge of Khazad-Dum
With a quick movement Gandalf stepped before the narrow openeing of the door and thrust forward his staff. There was a dazzling flash that lit the chamber and the passage outside. For an instant the wizard looked out. Arrows whined and whistled down the corridor as he sprang back.
"There are orcs, very many of them," he said. "And some are large and evil: black Uruks of Mordor. For the moment they are hanging back, but there is something else there. A great cave-troll, I think, or more than one. There is no hope of escape that way."
They weren't goblins, they were orcs. And some of them were orcs from Mordor, which I had forgotten. Gimli says in the chapter before that the orcs looted Moria of Mithril and gave it as tribute to Sauron.

I like your idea of Moria Orcs getting a bonus in shadow and dungeon spaces though.

I was rethinking the "Orc Captain" idea. If they bond, they should bond with Orc Champions, just like the other two orc squads. And we should consider making some of our new Orc heroes as Champions.
Quote:
Originally Posted by Chris Perkins View Post
You're right, I mixed up the terms there a bit.

If I remember right, the "biggest" difference between orcs & goblins was that Tolkien used the word "goblins" in the Hobbit & largely used the word "Orcs" in LotR. I think they were the same species, just different vocabulary.

So we could either:
Include "Goblins" in a Hobbit-specific release
or
Change "Goblins" from my post to "Moria Orcs".
Quote:
Originally Posted by capsocrates View Post
It seems you are correct about the vocabulary, and I learned something today. There are many sites explaining it, but this is the most succinct one.
Quote:
Originally Posted by White Knight View Post
Goblins and orcs are the same thing. Uruk-hai are stronger orcs from Isengard.

Quote:
From the LotR wiki:
"In the chapter "Over Hill and Under Hill" Tolkien states, "It is not unlikely that they invented some of the machines that have since troubled the world, especially the ingenious devices for killing large numbers of people at once, for wheels and engines and explosives always delighted them."

Goblin weapons include scimitars, axes, and spears, as well as bows. The great goblin-soldiers of Isengard, the "fighting Uruk-hai", are distinguished by their use of short, straight swords and long bows of yew.
But is also says that orcs are larger than goblins:

Quote:
In the Hobbit, Tolkien describes orcs as a large variety of goblins, leading to the idea that goblins were of smaller build than orcs, although "The Great Goblin" and "Azog the Goblin" (as they were called in The Hobbit) were massive in size.
And here are some pictures of the Sabertooth Games LotR orcs:

Uruk-hai






Orcs










sd

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 12:56 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

Instead of Mordor Orcs or Moria Orcs, I'd quite like Orcs of ____, like Shades of Bleakewood or Knights Of Weston. Of course Moria or Mordor Ocs would be easier to type in brainstorming, but Orcs Of would look better on the card.

I think from what I've gathered if goblins are not orcs, they are at least very closely related, sort of the opposite end of Uruk Hai, being a weaker, albeit more nimble variety of orc with a strong aversion/direct weakness to sunlight; essentially cave orcs. If so, I would like a card or cards to reflect that. I don't think squads should be lost on us, I can see plenty of fun beasties in the future and I feel HoME actually will have a balance between heroes and squads.
The only thing I want explained is why those ones could climb up the walls if they are simply garden variety orcs.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 01:02 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

to "Orcs of Moria"

Not sure what you mean by "climb up the walls"?

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 01:05 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I'm also on board with the idea of "orcs of" "goblins of" and whatever else we apply it to in order to show our varieties.

As for the climbing, are you referencing the movie scene in Moria after the fellowship fights the cave troll?
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Old May 21st, 2020, 01:11 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

"In the films they spider climb all over the walls and ceilings (both in Moria and in the Great Goblin's place - if orcs could do that the siege of Helm's Deep would have been over in ~30 seconds) and unwillingness to, even enraged, go out during the day when even the non-Uruk orcs in the Hobbit film are tooling around on wolfback at noontime."
From the link, course that's the movies, not sure if it's in the books or not. Also Heroclix has just a few mostly tokens, but Combat Hex does have several goblin figures.

Also Goblins definitely have the species of orc, but I feel they are different enough to warrant their own cards.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 01:12 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I think the spider climb thing was artistic license, as was the Orcs in daylight in The Hobbit. I remember the book made a big deal about how the goblin army moved at night. The battle of the five armies was during daytime though. Maybe overcast?

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 01:17 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I seem to recall Tolkien describing the goblin "breed" as loving cruel inventions too, denoting a level of intelligence that allowed them to create machines like the doorstep that Thorin's company camped on before they were captured and brought before the Hoblin King.

Scape also has goblins and then Orcs, would make sense to divide them here in my opinion.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 01:24 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I see goblins as a smaller mountain dwelling Orc and the regular Orcs as Sauron's standard militia/footsoldiers, with the Uruk Hai as a buff elite sort.

Borrowing from @Chris Perkins
Orc Squads:
Goblins (of Moria and/or Misty Mountains)
Goblin Archers (of Moria and/or Misty Mountains)
Orcs of Mordor
Orc Archers of Mordor
Uruk-hai
Uruk-hai Crossbowmen

Also without Goblins where would that leave Scrotumbeard (the Great Goblin). Of course we could put them off until the Hobbit
And just think of the Marro level bs they could pull if they could swarm together.

Last edited by Splash; May 21st, 2020 at 02:23 PM.
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Old May 21st, 2020, 04:21 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

Going back to mechanics, this might be an unpopular opinion, but I think stepping away from Bonding for the Orcs and such would be a good thing. Simply because of how all classic 'Scape Orcs bond, and we would risk just having more of the same. No matter what else we put on the card, if it had bonding, its basically just going to be a bonding squad, right? I mean you don't play Blade Gruts for that sweet sweet Disengage!
I think we can definitely come up with something more creative, and personally, for something Middle Earth themed, I would want heroes to be the main attraction, with squads offering support and fodder, rather than playing as many squads as my point limit allows with a hero or two for them to bond with. Just my two cents!
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Old May 21st, 2020, 04:33 PM
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Re: Brainstorm for Moria Orcs

I think you have a good point there, Archie.

Your custom probably has too much Defense.
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