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  #49  
Old April 9th, 2020, 07:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

Just re-looked at Righteous Rage and I guess it's any OM reveal including his own. So that looks to be fine then as it's not the same trigger as Self Importance as I thought. But yeah, I'd still be hesitant to take him in an Atrocitus led army since you want them all on Atrocitus. But you know what you're going for here. If he's a Red by name and not by allegiance, then other than potential confusion with synergy archives when army building, it should be fine.
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  #50  
Old April 9th, 2020, 07:57 PM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

Razer hung out with Hal/Kilowog/Aya for pretty much the whole series. I do think the OM requirement on Channeled Fury could be cut though - I don't really see a need for it. Righteous Rage seems like enough disincentive to run him with Atrocitus. Giving it unlimited uses seems like it'd probably be okay power-wise, but you've played him so you know him best.

Glad to see he's working well!
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  #51  
Old April 10th, 2020, 05:04 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

I guess my other concern with removing the OM restriction is that it'd allow you to use it when you trigger Righteous Rage, which... feels strange. If he goes off half-cocked he shouldn't be able to do so by gathering himself. I don't think he should be able to gather himself when Atrocitus is motivating him to press forwards either. Thematically, it feels iffy.
Unlimited uses sounds good, though. I'll update to that.


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  #52  
Old April 10th, 2020, 06:00 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

Would it be thematic for him to be an Officer? Just wondering how we could make him more draftable with the Greens but still remain a Red in name and mechanics. Could be fun. Idk.
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  #53  
Old April 10th, 2020, 06:12 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

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Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
Would it be thematic for him to be an Officer? Just wondering how we could make him more draftable with the Greens but still remain a Red in name and mechanics. Could be fun. Idk.
Hmm... that's thematically a bit weird. He's certainly never actually officially recognised by the Guardians, but neither is Aya and she's going to be an Officer for the sake of the Interceptor Crew being a viable team (the team is Hal, Kilowog, Aya and Razer, and my plan was that Kilowog boosts the stats of Hal and Aya and Aya boosts the D20 rolls of Hal and Razer). Given the style Razer's powers, I'd honestly be a little concerned that Kilowog could bust him/suddenly become Kilowog's best pairing. You could easily get four attacks of 9 in one turn at that point.

The thing is, I do actually like you being able to take him in a Red army just to allow more army-building options based on his history, a bit like how Gamora vII's going to be a viable option in a Black Order build as and when we get there. I just want to make sure that doesn't feel like his best build.


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  #54  
Old April 10th, 2020, 07:17 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

I guess I just think placing in his emphasis in one camp primarily rather than sort of in neither, is more interesting. A Red Lantern that you play with the Greens is pretty cool. A Red Lantern that doesn’t really seem to play with either just feels a bit like it falls between the cracks.

What about adding something like this:

???
If there is an Officer in your army, Red Lantern has the class of Officer instead of what is listed on this card.

Could be added to the first power and rename it. Then take out the OM reveal requirement from Channeled Fury. You would have him work fine with the Reds, sometimes conflicting with Atrocitus’ plans but usually he’ll be deadly enough it shouldn’t hurt you much. Then he also plays well with the Greens, and to get the bonus from Kilowog you’d have to draft another Officer (Hal or Aya etc.) so it at least isn’t a cheap combo(you can already pair him with Cap and S-L fwiw). If the attack potential is a concern, you could lower his batteries by 1(he probably shouldn’t have 3 anyways IMO). So then you’re dealing with 3 attacks of 5, 6 with height, or 7-8 with Kilowog. That’s plenty decent IMO.
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  #55  
Old April 10th, 2020, 07:41 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arkham View Post
I guess I just think placing in his emphasis in one camp primarily rather than sort of in neither, is more interesting. A Red Lantern that you play with the Greens is pretty cool. A Red Lantern that doesn’t really seem to play with either just feels a bit like it falls between the cracks.

What about adding something like this:

???
If there is an Officer in your army, Red Lantern has the class of Officer instead of what is listed on this card.

Could be added to the first power and rename it. Then take out the OM reveal requirement from Channeled Fury. You would have him work fine with the Reds, sometimes conflicting with Atrocitus’ plans but usually he’ll be deadly enough it shouldn’t hurt you much. Then he also plays well with the Greens, and to get the bonus from Kilowog you’d have to draft another Officer (Hal or Aya etc.) so it at least isn’t a cheap combo. If the attack potential is a concern, you could lower his batteries by 1(he probably shouldn’t have 3 anyways IMO). So then you’re dealing with 3 attacks of 5, 6 with height, or 7-8 with Kilowog. That’s plenty decent IMO.
I still disagree. I know what I'm doing here.
1) He should have three batteries, especially given his base stats are so low. This guy's pretty scary. This is the guy who was able to smack Atrocitus down and power his way through blue energy with sufficient motivation, and his base stats are low enough that he needs that extra marker. 5 Attack fully charged is not right for this guy.
2) What you describe about how he'd work with the Reds is basically how he'd work now anyway - he'll sometimes charge in, but when he does he can cause devastation and when he's not doing he can still be commanded by Atrocitus. I'm happy with that. The only issue is that he needs to be thrown his own OM to recharge but, frankly, he shouldn't be able to hold back and recharge when Atrocitus is motivating him to press on. That power is to represent the control he gained over his own rages and powers later in the series, and Atrocitus's command was not good for this chap's mental health. At all.
3) He doesn't, thematically, need to basically 'be one of the Greens'. He was never really a Green Lantern, and never acted as one. He became a close friend and ally of Hal, Kilowog and Aya (more than that with Aya) as the series progressed, but was never, actually, a Green Lantern - I don't think he ever worked with any other Greens, outside maybe you could consider the last episode where the whole Green Lantern Corps was called in and Razer came along with Hal and Kilowog? What's mainly needed is for the Interceptor Crew to be a viable, working team, and that should be what I'm achieving with this design and Aya (Here's Aya for reference - that D20 power's pretty strong and is going to be an amazing boon for both Hal and Razer). The only thing that might be missing is that, for about the last quarter of the series, Aya was no longer on the team and so Razer loses his connection there, but still, working with her is his thematic priority before anyone else and he should be viable enough as a throw in character to work elsewhere, including a team that happens to include Hal and Kilowog. I could maybe see trying to make him benefit from Kilowog, but I don't want to sacrifice his abilities as a stand-alone character for that (and he and Kilowog really didn't get on for the first chunk of the series - that changed, but to start with, at each others' throats). Honestly, he's feeling pretty perfect for the character right now. He's not a member of any Lantern Corps, Green or Red - he's a guy with a red power ring who's part of Hal's crew most of the time. His connection with the Greens is about personal loyalty to three of them (one of whom isn't recognised by the Guardians anyway and one of whom is considered to be an irresponsible wildcard by them much of the time), not being an honourary GL.


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  #56  
Old April 10th, 2020, 10:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

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Originally Posted by Lazy Orang View Post
I guess my other concern with removing the OM restriction is that it'd allow you to use it when you trigger Righteous Rage, which... feels strange. If he goes off half-cocked he shouldn't be able to do so by gathering himself. I don't think he should be able to gather himself when Atrocitus is motivating him to press forwards either. Thematically, it feels iffy.
Unlimited uses sounds good, though. I'll update to that.
Makes sense, I agree with that.

I agree that making him an Officer would feel off.
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  #57  
Old April 10th, 2020, 10:55 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

Yeah, I think itís worth noting that pretty much all Officer synergy not coming from Hal or Kilowog is most likely to be unthematic. Like if Salaak keys in on Officers, hanging out with RLs is exactly the kind of breach in protocol heíd be against, and thereís no way Razer is taking orders from him.

Honestly even Aya being an Officer feels like a stretch, but itís one of those things where eh, if thatís what makes her work in-game.
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Old April 10th, 2020, 11:54 AM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

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Originally Posted by MrNobody View Post
Yeah, I think it’s worth noting that pretty much all Officer synergy not coming from Hal or Kilowog is most likely to be unthematic. Like if Salaak keys in on Officers, hanging out with RLs is exactly the kind of breach in protocol he’d be against, and there’s no way Razer is taking orders from him.

Honestly even Aya being an Officer feels like a stretch, but it’s one of those things where eh, if that’s what makes her work in-game.
Yeah, I'm not super happy about her being an Officer, I just feel like Kilowog being a poor fit in an Interceptor Crew build (due to only boosting Hal on no one else) would be a worse theme break, game wise.

Honestly, I kind of feel like we got it flipped the wrong way with Kilowog and the Guardians, thematically, and that Kilowog should have been boosting GLs while the Guardians activate Officers. Would have made navigating this a lot easier, sadly.


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Old April 10th, 2020, 05:36 PM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

- Theme Test - Definite Pass, he feels spot on for Razer - pitch perfect for the character.
- Mirror Test - Pass.
- Bonding Test -
Pass - Bonding with Atrocitus isn’t OP.
- Synergies Test - Pass - Same. Aya will definitely help him when we get to her.
- Power Check - Pass
- Fun Test - Definite Pass - He was tonnes of fun to play! Unloading with a massive salvo you can’t really plan for but will want to take advantage of when you get was awesome, and it was fun to be able to recharge him afterwards. I can see there being times when a poor (1 or 2 skull) roll for Channeled Fury will be very frustrating, though, so I’m still removing the once per game part of that - didn’t need to do that in these games, but I can see times where you would and the action cost and the limited occasions you’ll want to do it anyway will mean it’s not OP. No effective difference in most games, I expect - most of the time it’ll effectively happen once per game - but it just limits the possibilities for him to be not fun.
- Fun Competitive Test - Pass - He’s not frustrating to fight, per se, although a full-blown Razer rage turn is arguably one of the scariest singe turn assaults in the game.
- Drafting Test - Pass - In a Red Lantern build, in a hodge-podge (admittedly probably one based on stat-boosting rather than OM-flexibility) and I can’t imagine an Interceptor Crew build when it becomes viable with Aya not wanting him.
- Usage Test - Pass, both his powers were used once each game - it’s quite possible they could end up being used more than once, depending on your rolls, though I think that’s unlikely, except maybe with Aya.
- Strategy Test - Pass - This is a tough one, since he’s kind of out of your hands and will do his own thing regardless of your input, but it is a strategic decision how much to push him when he goes off, as well as how much time to dedicate to recharging vs. fighting. Again, using him will become more strategic once paired with Aya, who’ll be able to either hold him back with Righteous Rage or spur him on.


Name Of The Playtest Unit: Red Lantern (Razer)

Army Test 1

Map: From the Ashes by BiggaBullfrog (no glyphs)
Armies:
Red Lantern (Razer) (265), Luke Cage, Songbird, Tigra (805 points)

vs.
Red Skull (C3G), Goro, Laserbeak, Michael Myres (805 points)

Spoiler Alert!


Army Test 2
Map:
Ruins of Rennoc by Flash_19 (No Glyphs)
Armies;
Star-Lord, Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Red Lantern (Razer) (260), Star Sapphire (Uncommon) (1,000 points)
vs.
Red Lantern (Atrocitus) (vII), Red Lantern (Bleez), Red Lantern (Dex-Starr) (1,000 points)

Spoiler Alert!


Army Test 3
Map:
Ruined City by Leaf_It (No Glyphs)
Armies;
Red Lantern (Atrocitus) (vII), Red Lantern (Bleez), Red Lantern (Razer) (250) (1,000 points)
vs.
Green Lantern (Hal Jordan), Green Lantern (Kilowog), Green Lantern (Guy Gardner), 1x Green Construct (Shield) (1,000 points)
Spoiler Alert!


Thoughts On The Tested Unit's Cost, Balance, & Draftibility:


He’s perfect for the character and I am so. Bloody. Happy with him.


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Old April 10th, 2020, 05:52 PM
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Re: The Book of Red Lantern (Razer) - Initial

3 close games, looking great!

pre-yea for public playtesting (just need to pick a point value, seems like he's good anywhere from 250-265 based on your games)
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