Who is stronger in SotM, Utgar or all others combined?

[rdhight]

So I got Swarm in the mail from Amazon yesterday. I've played one game with it so far-- just set the terrain aside, divided the figures into the Marro vs. the world, and used an existing map to try them out. I had the Utgar army. They are equal in points, but since there was no swamp water for my Drudge, no squad figures to trample through, and the buzz on the Hive is that it's only a good deal in high-point games, I wasn't expecting to do very well.

Short version, TKN took names. Trample Stomp is a big help against small and medium heroes, especially those inside Raelin's aura. All six Nagrubs were dead at the end of the game, but three of them managed to take a wound off their boss in return for giving up their lives, which is more than I expected. The hive was a big morale-crusher, keeping me topped off on both Stingers and Drudge so that I didn't lose my three attacks per turn. Stingers really did a number on Q10, despite their 5 range being a bigger hurdle than I expected.

I know that one game, played with 100% unfamiliar units, is not a fair test of an army's strength. But it seems to me that the "last alliance" is designed to go their separate ways and find homes of their own-- Drake the Valiant "Solider," Q10 the Vydar Soulborg, Sonlen the Elf, etc.-- while the Marro army helps itself right out of the box, and gets all the ranged squads to boot.

Those of you who have played the everyone-against-Utgar game more than I have, did it seem like Utgar had the advantage? Look at the two 660-point armies:

170 new Drake
120 New Raelin
160 Sonlen
150 Q10
060 Shiori

220 Tor-Kul-Na
160 Marro Hive
120 Stingers x2
100 Drudge x2
060 Nagrubs x2

Are they really a fair fight? I don't want to moan and groan about "if only that lame SotM could have equalled the gold standard that is Master Set 1! Why couldn't they just make it more like the last one?" but it does bug me somewhat.

[Jexik]

I think the main problem with the good guys is that they don't have any squads and they aren't quite tough enough to stand that well on their own. With the exception of Q10, and maybe Sonlen, they don't have a reliable source of multiple attacks.

That being said, the one time I did try the last campaign battle, I didn't have Shiori because she had died in the previous mission, but I still won. Q10 and Sonlen took names. The big flaw on that map is that it's highly skewed in the heroes' favor because they start near a Thorian glyph as well as the Marro Hive, so that probably isn't any way for me to judge them.

As far as the Marro go, if you take out the Hive, they make a nice little 500 point army right out of the box, but the Drudge will likely see very little play outside of swamp maps. New Drake, Sonlen, and Q10 are all pretty useful figures. I can't think of many times where I'd rather take the new Raelin over the old one, except a situation where I really can't spare any order markers to reposition her, such as with zombies.

Although it seems a little less intuitive than with the first MS, there's nothing stopping us from doing a standard draft with just the SotM figures.

[DingoDarkly]

They're both 660 points each so who can say fairer than that.

[Shades fan]

That was the very first game I played to and the Marro defeated everyone I didn't even need the Marro Hive because I just wasn't used to it yet but Tor-Kul-Na was one of my favorites and the Drudge which really helped.

[Ullar rocks 4553]

Well the main Commander-in-cheif on the heroes side is SGT.
Almost all of the people on the marro side are range, the ones that aren't are TKN and Nagrubs. Nagrubs will get there heads chopped of, but TKN can emerge from the fight with 1-2 health left, then get wrist rocketed. Also in the final battle, it is quite unfair. 1) The hive could actually do something, if it wasn't staring the heroes in the face. 2) I don't know who commands the marro horde, but whoever that idiot is, send out someone else to protect your hive instead of Nagrubs. 3) The Thorain glyph is just an almost basic win, you stand Sonlen there with his ranged attacks, and he can heal himself. And Q10 on the Wound glyph by the hive, which basically is a challenge for the marro's to "come and get them". Which doesn't work so well for them.

[Mythic]

We've played 3 Utgar vs. The Heros games (using our own maps) and the Marro have convincingly won every time.

Their numbers are just too overwhelming.

[Ullar rocks 4553]

On final scenario battle, or on regular battlefield.
On final battle, the marro get their butt wooped off.

[Nukatha]

If you really do play a Marro vs. Heroes fight using all the figures (so two of each common squad), you'd end up with 940 (Marro) and 660 (Heroes), which makes you at least wonder a bit why it is that the Heroes still seem to win... I must admit that I don't have this set yet.

Still, I need to know what happens when you use SBN instead of TKN. People have been praising TKN's trample, but SBN still offers the 5% boost to your Marro, which helps keep your stingers from self-destructing.

[Eclipse]

Originally Posted by Nukatha

If you really do play a Marro vs. Heroes fight using all the figures (so two of each common squad), you'd end up with 940 (Marro) and 660 (Heroes), which makes you at least wonder a bit why it is that the Heroes still seem to win... I must admit that I don't have this set yet.

I have absolutely no idea how you got that number:

220 TKN
160 Hive
120 Stingersx2
100 Drudgex2
60 Nagrubx2
____________
660 points

If you take EVERY Marro (and Marrden), there's 1160 points before you even start doubling commons.

[ThrasherDarkrai]

Originally Posted by Eclipse

I have absolutely no idea how you got that number:

220 TKN
160 Hive
120 Stingersx2
100 Drudgex2
60 Nagrubx2
____________
660 points

If you take EVERY Marro (and Marrden), there's 1160 points before you even start doubling commons.

Me thinks he thought that you weren't already counting the Stingers and Drudges and Nagrubs, so that equals the extra 280 points he needs to justify his somewhat stupid (But understandable) mistake.

[The Super Atheist]

You knock out that hive the marro are dead.

[rdhight]

Originally Posted by Ullar rocks 4553

On final scenario battle, or on regular battlefield.
On final battle, the marro get their butt wooped off.

I'm talking about a kill-all game with an original map using all the Swarm forces, not the scenario games they give you. I was not using any swamp water, any glyphs, or any special scenario rules.

I don't think the individual strength of the heroes is at fault, just the way they combine (or don't).