I'm gay

[dok]

No analogy is going to be perfect. My point was not that the two groups have the same health outcomes, and I don't see that as particularly relevant to the analogy I'm trying to draw.

Greyelephant had a problem with using race as an analogy because he (like many social conservatives) considers homosexuality to be a choice. I chose another group, fat people, that are looked down upon to some extent - not to the same extent as homosexuals, but to some extent. And there is obviously some element of personal choice in being fat, although there is some innate elements to it (I have to make a concerted effort in order to gain weight).

If you prefer, I could fall back on religion as an analogy again. Let's give that version a test-drive.

Originally Posted by (modified) master of disaster

Sorry to rain on your parade here, but if I were you, I would be ashamed of being a dirty Jew.

One of the things that makes my blood curdle the most is Jews. Personally, I would rather have been ignorant to the fact that you're a Heeb. Everytime I read one of your posts from now on, I'm going to think "oh, there's the Jesus-killer." Sorry for my rudeness, but i am being ruthlessly honest with you.

Again, not acceptable. And I could choose to convert to another religion, so...

[rednax]

Originally Posted by Grungebob

I'm not sure you can compare homosexuality to obesity. Obesity is a health condition that carries a negative cost on your health. As far as i am aware, there is no negative health as a result of being a homosexual.

But Grungebob, dok is not comparing the health aspects between obesity and homosexuality. He is comparing them because they are both qualities of a person that people might view as a bad thing. No one should be thought of a bad person because he or she is obese, black, or homosexual. You can't argue that we can't use that analogy because weight, race, and sexuality aren't exactly the same.

~Rednax

[MrWookiee]

Well Chardar, you should hate me because I call people gay too much. This is more me hearing every day of my life rather than me being an a**hole. Good for you Sujoah. Hope you have a great life. I don't understand all the hype about being gay. I mean, good for you, you like men, but its not like your personality changed. Seriously.

P.S. What if it turns out that "normal" is being gay? That would make Sujoah and All your Pie the only normal ones here...

Wow triple ninjad

[Shockma Ranyk]

Originally Posted by Greyelephant

you will not convince everyone here that you are born gay.

But he (Sujoah) was born gay. He has said himself in the hangout thread that he would not have chosen to be gay if he had a choice. He didn't just wake up one morning and make a conscious decision that from that point on he would be gay. Whatever the cause, he was born gay. Maybe he only just realized he was gay, but he has always been gay.

[Greyelephant]

Originally Posted by dok

No analogy is going to be perfect. My point was not that the two groups have the same health outcomes, and I don't see that as particularly relevant to the analogy I'm trying to draw.

Greyelephant had a problem with using race as an analogy because he (like many social conservatives) considers homosexuality to be a choice. I chose another group, fat people, that are looked down upon to some extent - not to the same extent as homosexuals, but to some extent. And there is obviously some element of personal choice in being fat, although there is some innate elements to it (I have to make a concerted effort in order to gain weight).

If you prefer, I could fall back on religion as an analogy again. Let's give that version a test-drive.

Again, not acceptable. And I could choose to convert to another religion, so...

No, I don't agree with you and that you make it into a quote like that's actually what he said. Someone could potentially come on here and read only the last few pages and read that he hates gays, blacks, fat people, and now "dirty" Jews.

I don't agree with what you are doing and I feel it should stop!

I am shocked with how long the Admins have let this go on. Just because someone does not agree with you, you don't need to take it to 6 more pages of bashing the person to death. Let it go and move on.

who are the ones showing that they are the immature ones, really?

[kolakoski]

Originally Posted by rednax

But Grungebob, dok is not comparing the health aspects between obesity and homosexuality. He is comparing them because they are both qualities of a person that people might view as a bad thing. No one should be thought of a bad person because he or she is obese, black, or homosexual. You can't argue that we can't use that analogy because weight, race, and sexuality aren't exactly the same.
~Rednax

Well met!

Also, he is comparing the assumption that homosexuals have a choice about their sexual preference with the assumption that obese people have a choice not to be. Both assume a weakness of character. But weakness of character in the subject of abuse does not justify rudeness, let alone bigotry. Just to be clear, the assumptions about gays and obese people and character made above are for the sake of argument only.

[Greyelephant]

Originally Posted by Shockma Ranyk

But he (Sujoah) was born gay. He has said himself in the hangout thread that he would not have chosen to be gay if he had a choice. He didn't just wake up one morning and make a conscious decision that from that point on he would be gay. Whatever the cause, he was born gay. Maybe he only just realized he was gay, but he has always been gay.

I haven't even stated anything pos. or neg. toward his decision one way or another. I'm simply stating you won't convince everyone no matter what.

This whole "discussion" dissolved into a show of bad character on many parts.

[Aldin]

Originally Posted by dok

Playing it up because you realize the original wasn't bad enough to make your point? Here's how it would have read as a "slur" against Christianity:

Originally Posted by fairly mild with a chance of offensiveness

Sorry to rain on your parade here, but if i was you i would be ashamed of what i was.

One of the things that makes my blood curdle the most is Christianity. Personally, i would rather have been ignorant to the fact that your a Christian. Since now every time i see a post by you i'll think "ick its the bigot." Sorry for my rudeness, but i am being ruthlessly honest with you.

If you think this board wouldn't tolerate that post you are dreaming.

~Aldin, neutrally

[Einar's puppy]

AS I said in the hangout thread very clearly, I'm really happy for you. I don't see "so what?" as the acceptable answer though.

"So what?" implies that it's nothing to get all excited about positively or negatively. The way I see it, this is awesome. Congratulations would be a better response!

BTW, as an Atheist I don't understand what you guys mean by the whole "everybody hates atheists" thing. I've never had anyone insult me for my atheism. Maybe its because most of my friends aren't very religious, I don't know. In fact, my only friend who I have who is REALLY religious seems fine with it. Sure, he wonders why I believe what I do, but I wonder why he believes what he does.

[dok]

@GE: I think it's obvious from the context of my posts that MoD didn't say those things, but I edited to make it more clear in case someone is just skimming the posts.

Originally Posted by Aldin

Playing it up because you realize the original wasn't bad enough to make your point?

I agree that the above reads as more offensive to our modern ears than MoD's original. I don't agree that it is any more intrinsically offensive (certainly not when compared to MoD's pre-edit version). The above version would probably not have raised too many eyebrows if attitudes towards Jews were still stuck in the time when there was significant institutional antisemitism.

And that's the point, really - we tolerate a much higher degree of disdain towards homosexuals than we do towards Jews. I know very few people who would casually use "jew" as a verb to describe driving a hard deal, but I know plenty of people who casually use "gay" as a synonym for bad.

Originally Posted by Aldin

Here's how it would have read as a "slur" against Christianity:

I'm not sure I can really evaluate that as an analogy. It's hard for me to mentally switch it around to an "in" group in stead of an "out" one. The rules and norms change a lot when you do that. Making fun of men is more tolerated than making fun of women, making fun of white people is more tolerated than making fun of black people, etc.

[MrWookiee]

Why is everybody changing what he said? He said he didn't like homosexuals, and nothing else. He could have been less rude about it, but it is his opinion and it's offensive to some and not to others. The fact that his response if changed maybe be vaguely offensive is moot. He said what he said.

[Greyelephant]

Originally Posted by MrWookiee

Why is everybody changing what he said? He said he didn't like homosexuals, and nothing else. He could have been less rude about it, but it is his opinion and it's offensive to some and not to others. The fact that his response if changed maybe be vaguely offensive is moot. He said what he said.

Because it was not offensive to EVERYBODY, so therefore it must keep getting changed in order too.