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C3V and SoV Customs A place for C3V and SoV customs |
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#241
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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First of all, your statements that I bolded are incorrect. This game was played on Badru Valley, with an attack glyph in the center. You are correct that the Cathar charged up the two hills as fast as possible, meaning that Zetacron would be attacking up. This makes the probability of killing a Spearman .469, or about 50%, meaning that every other turn I will kill one (if we go strictly by odds). Zetacron would get 2-3 shots, max, before the Spearmen closed on him. They do an average of .580 wounds to him, but don't forget Astrid, so really, that is .932 wounds per attack. That mean two Cathar should spear him for the kill. This means that Zetacron could take out a squad of Cathar, if I got really lucky, but most likely he'd only take out 1-2. And then I would still be screwed because of the luck dependency of the Cathar. I played the best strategy possible in the matchup by leading with the Heavies; I was defeated by two pure lucky turns when I lost a squad to braced spear and Grimnak to attacks. And also, you were the only one who agreed with your second statement; my dad agreed, but quickly realized that it is incorrect. The only flaw in this game was the power level of the Cathar Spearmen. I would like to lead up to my next point with he fact that IslandScape is great, the people are great, games are fun and competitive (although not too much so, more emphasis on fun), and the people who run it, especially Grishnakh, are awesome. However, to no fault of Grishnakh, his son, or anybody present, and offense to anyone, but this was the single most un-fun game of HeroScape, out of hundreds, that I have ever played. I would rather face Q9, Raelin, and Rats than the Cathar Spearmen, because Braced Spears make the game very obnoxious. It is a worse power than Scatter in turns of annoyance. So, not only do I feel that the Cathar are insanely powerful, but I also feel that they are insanely annoying. Please do not tell me that I need to start playing range to be competitive and that this is a good change for the metagame and all that crap. People have different preferences, and some of us would rather not play cheesy, cheap, girly range units that take much less finesse and strategy than melee units to win. Don't get me wrong, I'm a big fan of C3V and everything it does to help keep this amazing game and community alive and thriving. That being said, I wish C3V would get off their high horse and realize that no matter how official they get, they are still customs. There is no reason that they cannot change a unit that they "released"; community custom makers of all aspects of this game (units, maps, etc.) do this all the time. I realize that you are human, and I realize that you make mistakes, but there is no reason that you cannot fix these mistakes. It seems like there are more people than just me who would like the Cathar changed. I encourage those who read this to give a serious second look to the problem at hand, and community members, please weigh in with your opinions, especially if you have supporting facts. Thank you for your time and opinions, especially the negative rep I have been getting. And special thanks to @Dad_Scaper, for listening to the opinions of the community and serving as a median between us common folk and the lords of C3V. Edit: no personal attacks intended. Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
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#242
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
Sounds to me like a combination of the map, the unit, and the glyph made the game the way it was. If you put an A unit in a good position with an attack glyph , of course they'll play incredible. Notice that I'm assuming the Cathar to be A. Nobody thinks they're not a top tier unit.
Last edited by superfrog; September 22nd, 2014 at 07:10 PM. |
#243
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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The point is to get the fight on level ground, instead of running into the meatgrinder of Cathars camped on height.
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#244
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
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#245
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
Wow dok your strategy is going a bit too far...
I'd say it's the worst strategy I've ever heard from you. I don't know how I would have play this game but clearly attacking once per round with Zetacron does not seem like a reliable strategy to me... The cathars gets Astrid then start to slow-roll as they want meanwhile you kill nothing with Zeta. Let's say the cathars charge they get 4 attacks of 4 on Orcs then your next marker is on Zeta then once again 4 attacks of 4 or even 5 if they took height in the process. That's incredibly huge. Well it's game over from here. Plus even if you have your OM on orcs the next turn you still have to brave the braced spears and can lose one or two orcs. Let's face it going against Cathars without a good ranged unit (100 points at least) is just suicide. Especially on a map like Badru Valley. Especially if it's the "I destroy melee" Cathar build feat Marcus. Personnally I think I would have start with Zetacron. But yes it's a quite horrible machup and I don't want to play that. Hopefully Cathars aren't allowed at Gencon because they would be even more op: You go with the 4xCathars+Raymond+Marcus build you have incredibly strong cathars who can face basically anything. Then you stall the time a little bit and when only Raymond and Marcus are left in your SZ (with maybe one or 2 cathars still in play) it's "time's up let's count points". You win on point and you watch your opponent's cries. Dalu did this to me at a tournament I'll never forget him. |
#246
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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Sorry, I'm sticking with this. You hurt your chances of winning by charging height. Maybe your dice that day were so bad that it wouldn't have mattered, but Heroscape is a game about maximizing your odds, not guaranteeing success. |
#247
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
Well, now this discussion is circling the drain.
When I commented before that this is not an emergency, what I meant was, without meaningful data and a real pattern of the Spearmen behaving like a broken unit, there isn't much else to say. Which, maybe, is why OEAO is getting picked on for his in-game strategy in one game against one opponent at one map. Heaven help me if any of my losses were subjected to such an authoritative breakdown. And then people who disagree with the critics can repeat their conclusions of earlier, as if we've already forgotten them, and OEAO gets to relive his one frustrating Islandscape loss over and over as he tries to explain why alternate strategies wouldn't have worked. Maybe. Really, the only interesting thing in the thread since I last posted is this: Quote:
Last edited by Dad_Scaper; September 22nd, 2014 at 07:45 PM. |
#248
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
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#250
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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Well, we agree on the part that matters then. |
#251
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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I agree this is not an emergency, I am just hoping that if similar results come in, maybe someday the design team could look at the unit again and, if they feel is valid and necessary, slightly change the unit. Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
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#252
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Re: C3V/SoV-inclusive Power Rankings
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Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
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