The Book of Ventriloquist

[Spidey'tilIDie]

What if he and his thugs fail to wound, "he must immediately attack his allies with Scarface's Tommy Gun SA. If none of his allies are in Range of STGSA, place one wound marker on this card."

[johnny139]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I think that should do.

Alright, I updated that a bit; I think it reads much better now.

I'm still not really sure about the normal melee attack followed up by the Special Attack, though. I just can't see Wesker throwing a punch at Batman - or at anyone, really. Scarface is the only aggressive part of the duo.

[Lord Pyre]

[quote=johnny139;1375079]

Originally Posted by johnny139

I'm still not really sure about the normal melee attack followed up by the Special Attack, though. I just can't see Wesker throwing a punch at Batman - or at anyone, really. Scarface is the only aggressive part of the duo.

Well, I debated against this earlier, but I just tried this out here:

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

LIFE = 4
MOVE = 5
RANGE = 1
ATTACK = 1
DEFENSE = 3
POINTS = 80

HEIST PLANNER
Any Criminals or Thieves you control that start their movement adjacent to Ventriloquist may either add 4 to their movement if they end their movement occupying a glyph, or 1 to their movement if they end their movement on any other space.

SCARFACE'S TOMMY GUN SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 5, Attack 2
After attacking with Scarface's Tommy Gun Special Attack, you may attack with Scarface's Tommy Gun Special Attack two additional times.

"YOU DUMMY!"
After taking a turn with Ventriloquist, if Ventriloquist attacked with Scarface's Tommy Gun Special Attack, and did not deal any wounds to an opponent's figure, roll the 20-sided die. If you roll a 1-12, you must either choose one figure you control adjacent to Ventriloquist to receive one wound, or you must place one wound marker on this card.

Specifying the SA makes it so that Scarface blames everyone else for SOLELY his mistakes. We could go back to any attacks, though. I also lowered his attack to 1, to show that Wesker's just a cowardly chump. But if you had height, you still might want to go for the normal attack if you were scared of that wound.

[IAmBatman]

Hmm ... given that tweak, what would we think about lowering the range on the special attack by one, but upping the attack to 3?

[Karat]

I'm ok with that, in fact I kinda like that a tad better.

[quozl]

I also like the lastest suggestion.

Question though for those that know Ventriloquist better: how much of a crime lord is he? Does he control a gang?

[Lord Pyre]

I'm just worried he'd be TOO powerful if we up his attack. He's already mostly a cheerleader type figure, with his movement bonus helping out thugs while they bond with other crime lords. Right now Black Mask is the best crime lord to bond with, but then Ventriloquist might change that, since him taking a wound isn't the end of the world if he fails.

Originally Posted by quozl

I also like the lastest suggestion.

Question though for those that know Ventriloquist better: how much of a crime lord is he? Does he control a gang?

He's not a HUGE crime lord, at the scale of Penguin or Black Mask, he usually has a small gang of thugs, as far as I know. He's definitely got some power in Gotham, being a great mastermind at thefts, but not nearly like the others.
If you're thinking if the class is good, it's fine. It gives him his thugs he's always working with, and even if he's a lesser crime lord, he's still a crime lord, ya know?

[Good Pig]

Doubt he'll be attacking anyone in melee combat, but if you compare him to some other weaklings, attack 2 is kind of the minimum for a hero. Puppet Master (also has puppet fetish), Professor X (rolls over toes with wheelchair?), Alfred (whacks ppl with serving tray?), Moloid, etc.

[quozl]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I'm just worried he'd be TOO powerful if we up his attack. He's already mostly a cheerleader type figure, with his movement bonus helping out thugs while they bond with other crime lords. Right now Black Mask is the best crime lord to bond with, but then Ventriloquist might change that, since him taking a wound isn't the end of the world if he fails.

Hmm.... just throwing out a crazy idea here but what about giving him some kind of suppressive fire effect to his Tommy Gun attack instead of the current 3 attacks? That would give him more of a cheerleader role.

[IAmBatman]

Originally Posted by Lord Pyre

I'm just worried he'd be TOO powerful if we up his attack. He's already mostly a cheerleader type figure, with his movement bonus helping out thugs while they bond with other crime lords. Right now Black Mask is the best crime lord to bond with, but then Ventriloquist might change that, since him taking a wound isn't the end of the world if he fails.

An attack of 3 isn't that much in the world of Superheroscape and will fail just as often or less than the amount of times it succeeds, IMO. With an attack of 2, I'm not sure if I'd ever take the gamble of wounding him ...
That said, that's probably something that needs to be figured out in playtesting anyway.

[johnny139]

An attack of 3 would put him on par with Robin, Poison Ivy, and Harley Quinn... seems a bit heavy to me. I mean, I guess if he whacked you with Scarface that'd hurt, but in a melee one-on-one fight, I don't think Wesker would be any tougher than Alfred.

Ideally, Wesker SHOULDN'T be a Black Mask or Penguin scale unit. He's not the type to command large swaths of Thugs and attack Batman constantly. In the comics he generally has a small gang of toughs and thieves; he's not going to be waging a huge gang war. If anything, he'll be hired by another Crime Lord as a second-in-command. That should translate to HeroScape.

I think the ideal Ventriloquist setup would be Wesker, a Thief, and two squads of Thugs. The Thugs shouldn't be getting too much attention - they're a screen to keep Batman occupied. He should be a centerpiece in a THIEF army. Wesker and the Thugs should only serve as a distraction while Catwoman is out nabbing Glyphs and striking from the shadows. Wesker shouldn't be getting into engagements unless the chips are really down.

That's why I'm more in favor of a triple-attack Tommy Gun and less in favor of melee + two attacks. I don't feel there should be an advantage to bringing Wesker into the front lines.

[IAmBatman]

I meant an attack of 3 for the machine gun, not Wesker ...