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  #37  
Old May 4th, 2011, 10:57 AM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 5 (5/2)

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Originally Posted by Typhon2222 View Post
I think we had little option, because — and here our Surefooted/Floating differ from your Wind Walk — the elevation discount we wanted to give per hex is less than the height of the figures involved. Your modified Flying wording does, as you say, have the advantage of deriving from established precedent. But if I'm thinking it through correctly, it works for your Monks only as long as the imposed vertical limit (here, 5 levels of elevation) exceeds their height (4).
It's really an arbitrary thing. Any of these abilities could simply have a number attached to them, say "Surefooted X", and "ignore X levels of terrain". It would work the same.
I mean that a modified form of Flying wording works for the Monks only because the vertical limit imposed is greater than their height. But I don't see how it would work for cases in which a per-hex discount less than the figure's height is desired. Take our Ibixians, with a height of 5. If we wanted to give them Surefooted 3 via modified Flying, along the lines of your Monks, we'd end up with something like:

"When counting spaces for an Ibixian Ridge Raider's movement, ignore elevations. An Ibixian Ridge Raider cannot move to an adjacent space that is more than 3 elevations higher than that Ibixian's current space...."

That doesn't work because it prohibits the figure from moving up 4 levels, even though that should be allowed by any normal walking rules. At this point, one has to introduce concepts of reduction I think.


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Hmm... though now that I say that, I think I know what bugs me about the "ignore" wording. Does that mean to just ignore counting movement points for height, or does it also decrease the height for purposes of climbing? Ignoring 1 level of terrain could be interpreted that a 4-height figure could climb up 4 levels at once since the first level is ignored. Is that intended?
Good question. The former. I understand that one might wonder whether the latter was intended, but I don't think the wording actually supports it. By prefacing "....ignore up to X levels of elevation change per hex" with "When counting spaces for this unit's movement...", I think (hope, at least) that the application of "ignore" is limited to movement cost, not height.
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  #38  
Old May 4th, 2011, 11:15 AM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 5 (5/2)

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I mean that a modified form of Flying wording works for the Monks only because the vertical limit imposed is greater than their height. But I don't see how it would work for cases in which a per-hex discount less than the figure's height is desired.
Ah yes, you're right. That wording does not work in the general case for that reason.
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  #39  
Old May 5th, 2011, 12:01 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 5 (5/2)

New set up today. Aquilla's flagbearer, an Aquilla kyrie, a couple figures to round out the drow army, and an inquisitor.
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  #40  
Old May 6th, 2011, 02:46 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 6 (5/5)

Ok Scytale, I'm about to go on a viewing binge with your customs (takes a deep breath):

Dorrond Greatstone:
- love love love the Tactical Freedom aura. Fresh and funky.
- do you think he might be underpriced at 110, given his 6 life and 5 def? He has no attack worth mentioning, but his synergies are pretty useful, especially for the Axegrinders, who move 4 in a squad AND a dwarf hero once Dorrond is "in place"

Moani:
- can I suggest a rewording for Thorian Protection?:
Quote:
If any small or medium figure you control is adjacent to Moani the Kyrie Warrior, opponents' figures must be adjacent to that figure to perform a normal attack.
This is the quasi-"official" wording from Lurk in Shadows ability.
- I like the card but don't like the sculpt. He has a jerrycurl and butterfly wings.

Raugloth
- Counter Charge is brilliant, and his Disengage removes any concerns about how the mechanics would work.
- Wall Climb 15: might want to reword the end to clarify that it is 15 levels above or below his current height. Sounds obvious but you'd be surprised...
- at 90, he seems about right for the cost. Cool guy. If me and typhon ever get around to finishing our Drow faction, I would definitely design synergies etc with this guy in mind.

Vazniss
- Lloth's Deception Aura: I was planning on doing something very similar, since the Drow roll a lot of d20. I don't like the bit about taking a wound, though. Why not just let them re-roll? You are paying 120 points for that ability. I guess if you roll a 5 or lower the first time, the risk is very small. What if you roll a 10, though? I guess on a Deepwyrm, if you roll a 10 you are taking a wound from the attack anyway, so might as well try to reroll. Hmm... Very interesting.
- Life Essence: also cool.
- I like her a lot also, despite my gripes about Lloth's Deception. At 3/3 and 5 life, she can also get in there and bonk some goblins on the head if she needs to.

Twilight Eye Cultist:
- I like it a lot. If you have 10 pts left over and it seems thematic, why not always add 1 to initiative instead of leaving a stupid ninja to twiddle her thumbs in the start zone the whole game?
- something happened to his card in first post -- it is extra large instead of thumbnail for me. Unless you wanted to emphasize the Cultist in particular? :P

Oakwood Warriors
- one nitpick on these guys: I think that the species (top left) is usually singular for squads. So the KoW are "human" and the Minions are "Kyrie." So it would be "Treant." EDIT: of course now that I look at it, the Axegrinders are "dwarves" so ... ??? Nevermind

Tasculuss
- yay! A lizard hero that ISN'T a dragon.
- my gripe is that he seems a little...puny. Don't you want to give him some kind of synergy with greenscales to reward the player who picks him instead of, say, Braxas?

Abyssal Maw
- he seems a little weak, even for 20 points. Dumutef Guard is 4/4 (5/5 on road). Even with this guy's special abilities, I think he could go to 2/3 at least for 20 points. Maybe the fact that Rayne can re-summon him should factor in, though. I'm not sure how to conceptualize the point costs...

Dretch
- Putrid Aura is nasty, both literally and figuratively. Very cool.

Runespiral Demon
- love love love the Arcane Arc! Make it attack 4! It is so hard to pull off in practice, probably! I'm using lots of exclamation marks! Or add to the range?


Phew. Great stuff guys. Where are my Greater Demons? Still trying to get that Balor to fit on two hexes, eh?
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  #41  
Old May 6th, 2011, 05:46 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 6 (5/5)

Thanks a ton for the review! I've been meaning to do some reviewing of yours; guess I need to get on that!


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Dorrond Greatstone:
- do you think he might be underpriced at 110, given his 6 life and 5 def? He has no attack worth mentioning, but his synergies are pretty useful, especially for the Axegrinders, who move 4 in a squad AND a dwarf hero once Dorrond is "in place"
Yeah, maybe, or maybe overpriced. Depends on the matchups. When I went up against an Aubrien Archers army, he seemed like mostly a waste of 110 points (the defense boost was still useful). Against Deathreavers he'd be awesome.

You don't get any combat power with him, so it's all a question of his auras. He's competing against the awesome Mogrimm and heavy-hitting Migol at similar costs, as well as the option of not bonding for the extra speed. Needs more playtesting to really get a feel of the value of Tactical Freedom Aura.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Moani:
- can I suggest a rewording for Thorian Protection?:
Quote:
If any small or medium figure you control is adjacent to Moani the Kyrie Warrior, opponents' figures must be adjacent to that figure to perform a normal attack.
This is the quasi-"official" wording from Lurk in Shadows ability.
- I like the card but don't like the sculpt. He has a jerrycurl and butterfly wings.
I like the rewording. I copied the Thorian Speed wording, but it's pretty clunky. I didn't think of Lurk in Shadows. Thanks!

One thing I loved about the Kyrie was how different they all were between generals. I, like some others, feel that butterfly wings would be a good way to go with Aquilla. Clear bug wings would be coolest, in my opinion, but I don't have figures that use that.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Raugloth
- Wall Climb 15: might want to reword the end to clarify that it is 15 levels above or below his current height. Sounds obvious but you'd be surprised...
- at 90, he seems about right for the cost. Cool guy. If me and typhon ever get around to finishing our Drow faction, I would definitely design synergies etc with this guy in mind.
Wall Climb is a direct copy of Grapple Gun. You're right, though, the fact that Grapple Gun can only go upward is silly, and I should do better with Wall Climb. Thanks again!

I look forward to seeing your Drow.


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Vazniss
- Lloth's Deception Aura: I was planning on doing something very similar, since the Drow roll a lot of d20. I don't like the bit about taking a wound, though. Why not just let them re-roll? You are paying 120 points for that ability. I guess if you roll a 5 or lower the first time, the risk is very small. What if you roll a 10, though? I guess on a Deepwyrm, if you roll a 10 you are taking a wound from the attack anyway, so might as well try to reroll. Hmm... Very interesting.
The official Drow have a very dark feeling with no "helpful" synergies. Pelloth destroys one of his own for his ability. I didn't want to change that self-serving, using others feel, but I did want to make a figure that tied the Drow army together (better than Pelloth).

A reroll aura is something that hasn't been used before in HS. One needs to be careful with it though; a reroll is potentially very powerful.

As it is, I like the flavor of Lolth's Deception and the choices one needs to make. It's very good for Hide in Darkness, but a tougher choice for other abilities like my Drider Fanglord's Immobilizing Web.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Twilight Eye Cultist:
- something happened to his card in first post -- it is extra large instead of thumbnail for me. Unless you wanted to emphasize the Cultist in particular? :P
No idea. It works fine for me. It's not something I did either way. I included the link to the large pic, and normally the forum resizes it automatically. That one shouldn't be different than all the others.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Oakwood Warriors
- one nitpick on these guys: I think that the species (top left) is usually singular for squads. So the KoW are "human" and the Minions are "Kyrie." So it would be "Treant." EDIT: of course now that I look at it, the Axegrinders are "dwarves" so ... ??? Nevermind
Official Heroscape is ridiculously inconsistent when it comes to singular/plural for species and class. Sometimes singular, sometimes plural for no rhyme or reason.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Tasculuss
- my gripe is that he seems a little...puny. Don't you want to give him some kind of synergy with greenscales to reward the player who picks him instead of, say, Braxas?
He is puny, and that's kinda the point. There are plenty of high-cost (140+) dragons to choose from. The Greenscales really don't need another figure in that space. Tasculuss provides a decent low-cost option as a lizard king. He also works well as a beat stick with Armocs and Romans.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Abyssal Maw
- he seems a little weak, even for 20 points. Dumutef Guard is 4/4 (5/5 on road). Even with this guy's special abilities, I think he could go to 2/3 at least for 20 points. Maybe the fact that Rayne can re-summon him should factor in, though. I'm not sure how to conceptualize the point costs...
A good observation. Costing these little guys is tough, particularly considering taking Rayne and Yurganthaor into account. They do fall quick in melee, but an auto shield against range is pretty awesome. In playtesting people often take more of these guys than any other Lessers.


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Runespiral Demon
- love love love the Arcane Arc! Make it attack 4! It is so hard to pull off in practice, probably! I'm using lots of exclamation marks! Or add to the range?
I really like the idea of increasing the attack to 4. It's amazingly hard to set up (I don't remember ever actually using it), so it deserves the extra reward. Thanks!


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Phew. Great stuff guys. Where are my Greater Demons? Still trying to get that Balor to fit on two hexes, eh?
Greater Demons will be in the next set, along with their mighty leader.
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  #42  
Old May 6th, 2011, 06:03 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 6 (5/5)

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Dorrond Greatstone:
- do you think he might be underpriced at 110, given his 6 life and 5 def? He has no attack worth mentioning, but his synergies are pretty useful, especially for the Axegrinders, who move 4 in a squad AND a dwarf hero once Dorrond is "in place"
Yeah, maybe, or maybe overpriced. Depends on the matchups. When I went up against an Aubrien Archers army, he seemed like mostly a waste of 110 points (the defense boost was still useful). Against Deathreavers he'd be awesome.

You don't get any combat power with him, so it's all a question of his auras. He's competing against the awesome Mogrimm and heavy-hitting Migol at similar costs, as well as the option of not bonding for the extra speed. Needs more playtesting to really get a feel of the value of Tactical Freedom Aura.
You are right about having to choose between the other awesome dwarf heroes. The beauty if this guy is that he can not bond (and give the dwarves their movement) and still be useful. And it is always nice to be able to disengage when you are moving a 4-dwarf squad. So yeah, maybe 110 is about right.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Vazniss
- Lloth's Deception Aura: I was planning on doing something very similar, since the Drow roll a lot of d20. I don't like the bit about taking a wound, though. Why not just let them re-roll? You are paying 120 points for that ability. I guess if you roll a 5 or lower the first time, the risk is very small. What if you roll a 10, though? I guess on a Deepwyrm, if you roll a 10 you are taking a wound from the attack anyway, so might as well try to reroll. Hmm... Very interesting.
The official Drow have a very dark feeling with no "helpful" synergies. Pelloth destroys one of his own for his ability. I didn't want to change that self-serving, using others feel, but I did want to make a figure that tied the Drow army together (better than Pelloth).

A reroll aura is something that hasn't been used before in HS. One needs to be careful with it though; a reroll is potentially very powerful.

As it is, I like the flavor of Lolth's Deception and the choices one needs to make. It's very good for Hide in Darkness, but a tougher choice for other abilities like my Drider Fanglord's Immobilizing Web.
You are absolutely right about the feel of the Drow. They aren't a very hug-and-help bunch, to be sure. Living in the Underdark will do that, I guess.

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
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Tasculuss
- my gripe is that he seems a little...puny. Don't you want to give him some kind of synergy with greenscales to reward the player who picks him instead of, say, Braxas?
He is puny, and that's kinda the point. There are plenty of high-cost (140+) dragons to choose from. The Greenscales really don't need another figure in that space. Tasculuss provides a decent low-cost option as a lizard king. He also works well as a beat stick with Armocs and Romans.
Ok, that's true. I also forgot that as a designated lizard king, the Greenscales still get the +1/+1 from him. So ignore this.
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  #43  
Old May 9th, 2011, 01:54 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 7 (5/9)

The Greater Demons are up today, led by their mighty leader Yurganthaor.
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  #44  
Old May 9th, 2011, 02:43 PM
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Thumbs up Re: Scytale's customs - set 7 (5/9)

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Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
The Greater Demons are up today, led by their mighty leader Yurganthaor.
Scy, great stuff here. I'm gonna comment now while I'm in forums mode.

Yurganthaor
- you didn't find it was too strong to move 3 lessers in playtesting? For Yurg I would have done 1 Greater, 2 Lesser, or 1 Squad (=3 figs probably), but at the same time we are having some difficulty deciding on this exact same mechanic with our Reaper King undead commander. The question is: will 3 lessers be so much better than any 1 squad that a person would never draft squads with these guys?

Bjornganal
- this guy looks familiar :P
- he looks to be *really* strong for 140. If he charges, he attacks with 7, and then when the enemy moves in to exploit his low defense, he gets em with Engagement Strike. Ouch!

Ssoril
- Noxious Stench Aura is a really great ability, especially the 2-wound stipulation.
- Bite and Claw is also very good. I'll be stealing both of these abilities in some form or another I like the slight nerf on the double attack.

Ulu-Thurg
- Ok, I had to read his ability text twice to "get" it, so that's not good. Can I suggest this reword:

Quote:
Choose a figure to attack. You may choose one other figure adjacent to the target to be affected by Soulfire Special Attack. If you place a wound marker on Ulu-Thurg before attacking, you may choose to attack all figures adjacent to the target with Soulfire Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Ulu-Thurg cannot be affected by his own Soulfire Special Attack.
Here I omitted the bit about him needing clear sight to only the target. I don't think you need that (see Heirloom's Force Orb ability, for instance).

- his price seems right, but his life is high for that price. defense low like the rest, though.

Xoun
- cool. Psychic Blast seems really strong for an 80-pt figure, and doesn't need LOS. Were you ever tempted to make it Attack 3?
- like Psionic Disruption ability a lot.
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  #45  
Old May 9th, 2011, 02:56 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 7 (5/9)

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Scy, great stuff here. I'm gonna comment now while I'm in forums mode.
Once again, a world of thanks!


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Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Yurganthaor
- you didn't find it was too strong to move 3 lessers in playtesting? For Yurg I would have done 1 Greater, 2 Lesser, or 1 Squad (=3 figs probably), but at the same time we are having some difficulty deciding on this exact same mechanic with our Reaper King undead commander. The question is: will 3 lessers be so much better than any 1 squad that a person would never draft squads with these guys?
The Lessers were designed to move and attack with three at a time. I kept them small and weak ~20/25 pts so that they wouldn't be stronger than, at least, the existing demon squad the Mezzodemon Warmongers. In practice, any three Lessers is more-or-less equivalent of activating one Greater or a Mezzo squad. Most anything is weaker than using Yurganthaor himself, which leads to the very dangerous temptation to put him out front... where he dies.


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Bjornganal
- this guy looks familiar :P
- he looks to be *really* strong for 140. If he charges, he attacks with 7, and then when the enemy moves in to exploit his low defense, he gets em with Engagement Strike. Ouch!
Heh, yeah, I just noticed you used the same figure for one of your own.

He's good for a good, hard hit (if the dice are with you...), but 2 defense doesn't hold up much. Charging into a ranged army gets him dead. My friend Richard used him to defeat a Hobgoblin (yet to be shown) army with a hot d20, but he died along with everything else not-Yurganthaor.


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Ssoril
- Noxious Stench Aura is a really great ability, especially the 2-wound stipulation.
- Bite and Claw is also very good. I'll be stealing both of these abilities in some form or another I like the slight nerf on the double attack.
Thanks! Steal away!


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Ulu-Thurg
- Ok, I had to read his ability text twice to "get" it, so that's not good. Can I suggest this reword:

Quote:
Choose a figure to attack. You may choose one other figure adjacent to the target to be affected by Soulfire Special Attack. If you place a wound marker on Ulu-Thurg before attacking, you may choose to attack all figures adjacent to the target with Soulfire Special Attack. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. Ulu-Thurg cannot be affected by his own Soulfire Special Attack.
Here I omitted the bit about him needing clear sight to only the target. I don't think you need that (see Heirloom's Force Orb ability, for instance).

- his price seems right, but his life is high for that price. defense low like the rest, though.
I like the rewording. The clear sight bit is pretty standard (see almost any explosion special), but I hadn't noticed Heirloom does it differently. I'll think about it.


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Xoun
- cool. Psychic Blast seems really strong for an 80-pt figure, and doesn't need LOS. Were you ever tempted to make it Attack 3?
- like Psionic Disruption ability a lot.
Yeah, I'm not sold on the 4 attack. I wanted to give him enough punch to make him worth activating, but maybe the "no line of sight needed" bit is enough.

Last edited by Scytale; May 9th, 2011 at 05:41 PM.
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  #46  
Old May 12th, 2011, 12:53 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 8 (5/12)

Uploaded some new cards and added them to the first post.

The figures used for one of the units, the Army of the Dead, was recently previewed by the C3V for one of their upcoming units. It's no surprise, really, as they are great-looking figures. So my custom is already obsolete. I am a bit sad, though, because of all the units I've made the Army of the Dead has been the most fun in playtesting. I believe my playtesters would agree with me.
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Old May 12th, 2011, 02:45 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 8 (5/12)

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Uploaded some new cards and added them to the first post.

The figures used for one of the units, the Army of the Dead, was recently previewed by the C3V for one of their upcoming units. It's no surprise, really, as they are great-looking figures. So my custom is already obsolete. I am a bit sad, though, because of all the units I've made the Army of the Dead has been the most fun in playtesting. I believe my playtesters would agree with me.
Army of the Dead does indeed look cool, especially since the figures are all unique (and not four of the same like our customs). I might have to take a closer look at these Confrontation sculpts! :P I don't see why it makes your custom obsolete, though..(?)

One question: why would I ever want to use Rise from the Grave instead of just plopping them all down on the start zone at beginning of game? Is the advantage that you can 'summon' them to forward positions quickly once you get another undead guy forward?
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Old May 12th, 2011, 03:03 PM
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Re: Scytale's customs - set 8 (5/12)

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
Army of the Dead does indeed look cool, especially since the figures are all unique (and not four of the same like our customs). I might have to take a closer look at these Confrontation sculpts! :P I don't see why it makes your custom obsolete, though..(?)
I'm a real stickler for visual consistency, and I've always loved how Heroscape used different sculpts for each squad member. I want to do the same if at all possible. The Rakham minis are fantastic for both size and quality, and are somewhat affordable (on sale).

Being a stickler is pretty much why I consider my AotD obsolete. I'm a bit proponent of the C3V initiative and I'll be getting copies of everything they produce. The stickler in me won't allow two units to use the same minis. So when C3V puts out their version, I'll say goodbye to the Army of the Dead.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Sertorius View Post
One question: why would I ever want to use Rise from the Grave instead of just plopping them all down on the start zone at beginning of game? Is the advantage that you can 'summon' them to forward positions quickly once you get another undead guy forward?
That's exactly it. A major problem with any melee squad, or any squad really, is getting them all into combat position when you have multiple sets. Sending out a single group is usually detrimental, as you end up with only 1 or 2 attacks per order marker with a daisy chain of guys marching to their death. The ability to summon guys right into the fray is what gives Zombies and Dividers their greatest potency. AotD does a similar trick but it plays out very differently.

Winning with the AotD requires hitting your enemy hard and fast and plowing into his starting zone. Once they get into the fight they don't have enough defense to hold up against much of anything, but Rise from the Grave keeps the reinforcements coming without taking the turns to move them from the starting zone. If things go well you can keep up 3-4 attacks per order marker.

However, it's a balancing act, and things can turn very bad in a heartbeat. Once your opponent has destroyed all AotD on the battlefield, you can't summon any more, so determining how many to put in your start zone and how many to leave off the board is a tricky decision. Too many in the start zone and your attack falters when you can't rise more into the fray, too few and your forces are killed off before you have a chance to rise everybody.
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