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  #133  
Old October 24th, 2010, 04:40 PM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

So Spidysox asked us to comment on what we thought of the rolling rumble format that we used in Eastern PA's NHSD. Since it was my first tournament I can't really compare it to other styles but I can say that I enjoyed being able to finish my games. When Mecherath and I played the game went very, very slowly. We were both noobs and were very calculating before we moved. That combined with my rats vs his orc horde made for some slow play especially when all I had was Cyprien to defeat his 18 orcs and isamu. Finishing these slow games limited the total amount of games that I got to play.

What is good about finishing out games is that the end game is the most exciting part (My games came down to the wire 4 out of 5 times). I might have lost those games if it was timed and we calculated points and then I would not have won the even. However, when it got towards the end of the tournament I ended up playing the 2-3 sleeper instead of the 4-1 Tom which would have been the "championship game". Basically the rolling rumble allowed me to slip past the second place Tom into first by sheer coincidence that we never played.

So rolling rumble

Pro's
Finish your games
No long wait for players who finish early
Allow late arrivals to pick-up and play

Con's
Slow players play less games than fast players
Lucky players can avoid the "big dogs"

I really enjoyed this tournament and this format but I think it needs some sort of rule so that players like me who take a 4-0 record into the last round of games aren't playing people who are 2-3.
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  #134  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 12:53 AM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

Ohio NHSD thew out the idea of using rolling rumble. My questions, is what is the the most fair way to rank people? For instance, how would you rank the following people?
  • 6-2, 4 W-L Difference, 75% winning percentage, 24 SOS (total of opponent's wins), 15 SOS-Dif (total of opponent's W-L Difference), 66.66% SOS% (average of opponent's winning %)
  • 5-1, 4 W-L Dif, 83.33% winning, 21 SOS, 14 SOS-Dif, 77.77% SOS%
  • 5-0, 5 W-L Dif, 100% winning, 19 SOS, 16 SOS-Dif, 80% SOS%
  • 4-0, 4 W-L Dif, 100% winning, 12 SOS, 8 SOS-Dif, 66.66% SOS %

In normal tourneys, I really like SOS as the 2nd factor after wins, but in rolling rumble, the more games you play, the more your SOS will be because you will have more opponents who in turn will have more opponents themselves. Two ways to compensate is to factor in either the total W-L of all your opponents as SOS or to average your opponent's winning % as SOS. Either way, random/arbitrary match-ups will determine standings because you could play a bunch of crappy players and do will or some really good players and do bad. Then again, I have never participated in one so I might not have a clue what I am talking about. So what is the fairest way to rank people?

Last edited by lefton4ya; August 23rd, 2011 at 01:00 AM.
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  #135  
Old August 23rd, 2011, 11:11 AM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

Instinctively, I would rank those people 5-0, 4-0, 5-1, 5-2. I agree that SoS% is better than pure SoS in these situations, if it's your first tiebreaker.

Our method has been win difference, followed by winning percentage, followed by SoS-Dif. If win difference and win percentage are both the same, then you're usually looking at identical records, unless you're comparing a 3-3 to a 2-2 or something like that. In those cases, I actually like rewarding the person who got more games in by giving them a small advantage in win dif calculations.
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  #136  
Old August 26th, 2011, 03:54 PM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

Thanks Dok. So it looks like the best ordering is:
  • Wins-Loss
  • Winning %
  • SOS based on opponent's total W-L record

In Rolling Rumble, are you allowed to forfeit halfway though a game (when you are pretty sure you are going to loose) so you can get more games in? Since you are ranked by the number of wins-losses, if you know you are going to loose a game (but still have more than a 50% record), it is better to try and get more games in, so I could imagine many people forfeiting almost all the games they think they are going to loose. I would imagine someone can only forfeit if the other player is Ok with it too, but I would still do something like make a maximum amount of games you can play in an event or a minimum game play time of 1/2 hour, unless you destroy your opponent completely in less than that time. Does anyone have rules for/against forfeiting or have a maximum game limit or minimum time per game limit?
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  #137  
Old August 26th, 2011, 04:53 PM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

If you are confident you're going to lose, I don't see the point in making someone play it out. If you think you have a chance of winning, there's not any incentive to give up.

I've been pushing for a 75 minute time limit at our NHSD event. A 1v1 game on a BoV-style map really shouldn't take any longer than that. In the past I've had some really long games in rolling rumble formats, which can be frustrating.
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  #138  
Old August 26th, 2011, 05:11 PM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya View Post
In Rolling Rumble, are you allowed to forfeit halfway though a game?
I agree with Dok that it's fine to forfeit, whatever the format.

It's more a question of etiquette, and I don't know of any universal standard in 'scape. In chess, it can be considered impolite not to resign a lost position; in other games "quitting early" can be seen as petulant and unsporting. In tournaments, if I'm losing and would resign (I take the chess view) I ask my opponent whether or not he/she wants to play it out or take the win then. It's gone both ways (it doesn't happen often; it has to be a completely lost cause).

Most importantly, "lose" and "loose" are very different words. You mean lose.

Last edited by ollie; August 26th, 2011 at 05:21 PM.
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  #139  
Old May 19th, 2017, 07:14 PM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

I remember attending the Columbus NHSD in 2012 with this format. Now, I'm thinking about doing this with small 300-400pt armies to make the games really fly by for our C2P Tournament in August.

Any recommendations for hosting a tourney in this format?

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  #140  
Old June 17th, 2017, 11:08 AM
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Re: An Alternative Tournament Structure: The Rolling Rumble

I don't think I have any suggestions other than what's in the OP. A chalk board is pretty handy for tracking who's waiting.

My only note might be to have a soft time limit; I've seen players who had lost the game keep playing against ridiculous odds. It can be nice to be able to give their opponent an out to start a more competitive game. "It's been over an hour, why don't you guys count points after the next set of OMs; we've got people waiting for an opponent" etc.

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