The state of the country...

[braveheart101]

Hey all,


Is anyone as angry as I am right now at Obama? He is ruining this country with his bailouts. He is wanting to make it so the goverment can take away babies, he is wanting to put steroids in drinking water, and, ABOVE ALL, he wants to pass the stupid health care bill! Any thoughts?

(Sorry for the angry rant, I needed to get this off my back. Mods can delete/ lock this if they wish.)

[Onacara]

I didn't vote for him.

[ABOMINATION]

I didn't either. The fact that I'm 16 helped with that. Really, I think that the health-care bill is a bad bet. *sniff* I smell a debate thread on the way.

[Bannister]

Do you have anything specific you don't like about the current attempts at health care reform? Is it just that it is Obama pushing it? Dems pushing it? Or is it just a general "I don't like that guy" rant?


Bannister

[braveheart101]

I dont like anything about the health care overhaul.

[Bannister]

So you are against health care reform?

Bannister

[dok]

"His" bailouts? You do know who signed the TARP bill, right?

I'll say this, though: I voted for Obama, for a wide variety of reasons. But if I were a single-issue voter, and that issue was health care, I would have voted for McCain. I support the Wyden-Bennet bill*, which is actually somewhat similar to what McCain was suggesting during the campaign.

* warning: link contains boring, serious analysis without flashy slogans.

[tubafication]

The only reason he's getting all of these things passed is (sorry if I offend anyone) because he's playing the race card. Ie. Pass this bill or you are racist, which is the same thing that happened in the election. I'm not saying Obama is that obvious with his race card, but he does play it in certain cases, which I feel is turning this country lopsided. The only reason I was pulling for him to win is because I did not want Palin as our VP.
Just my opinion.

[dok]

Originally Posted by tubafication

The only reason he's getting all of these things passed is (sorry if I offend anyone) because he's playing the race card. Ie. Pass this bill or you are racist,

I'm not really offended as much as dumbfounded. What are "all these things" he passed by playing the race card? To put it simply, what the heck are you talking about?

The only major legislation that's passed since the election was the stimulus package. If you will, please name one congressman who voted for the package who isn't already ideologically aligned with Obama.

Originally Posted by tubafication

which is the same thing that happened in the election.

Really? You don't think "generic democrat" would have beaten "generic republican" pretty soundly last fall? The idea that Obama won because people casting secret ballots were afraid of being considered racist is really silly. Obama won for many reasons, including but not limited to:

• George Bush was exceptionally unpopular - an unpopular sitting president always hurts the performance of candidates in that party.
• The economy underwent a historic collapse last fall. A bad economy always hurts the performance of the incumbent party.
• By any reasonable and objective standard, Obama's campaign was drastically stronger than McCain's. He was better funded, had a drastically stronger ground operation, and was much more effective in speaking to the mood of the country last year.

None of that is about ideology, and that stuff alone is more than sufficient to explain Obama winning. Appealing to some secret reverse racism is just intellectual laziness.

Originally Posted by tubafication

Just my opinion.

You know what they say about opinions.

[Bannister]

Health care reform is a non-partisan issue. Both Dems & Reps have been advocates for proper health care for American citizens for almost a century. The partisan part of this issue is the "how to go about it part". Is a state sponsored system better or an private enterprise system with government incentives better?

Feel free to disagree with the health plan but at least state why you don't like it and what you think would be better. Just saying Obama & Dems are baby hating racists is weak Limbaugh / Franken type nonsense.

Bannister

[Jandarforever]

I think the socialized healthcare plan is bad for several reasons.

1. I don't think that America should have anything to do with anything relating to Socialism. Many Americans will say they oppose Socialism, but they want the "benefits" of it in our country. The reality, however, is that you can not have both a free country and the benefits of Socialism. It just won't work.

2. I think it is downright wrong for the government to be interfering with areas like healthcare. Having healthcare should be something you work for, not something the government gives you. We all have the right to life, liberty, AND THE PURSUIT OF HAPPINES. Pursuit of happiness implies that you, not your government, should work to get things like a job, food, a house, healthcare, and whatever else you need to be happy. The minute we let the government start doing all of this for us, we become a Socialized nation. This quote by Benjamin Franklin helps to illustrate the point:

Any society that would give up a little liberty to gain a little security will deserve neither and lose both.

I'm just saying, if we give up our liberty to work for stuff like healthcare, and let the government just give it to us, we have some problems.

3. I don't see why Socialized healthcare would be so great anyway. The government is in deep enough financial trouble as it is. So why does anyone think that it can manage the healthcare of an entire nation? I think the system would quickly, and severely get overburdened. Not only will this cause you to wait indefinite amounts of time for treatment, but it would probably be really bad treatment because of how overburdened the doctors would be.

If I got any of that wrong, just point it out, but I hope at least that the Benjamin Franklin quote clears up a few things.

[Onacara]

Don't youy just love political debates started by minors?