Oblivion

[Chameleon]

Originally Posted by cbs42

I've got a question about light.

Since I was sick of using torches and casting light spells all the time in dark dungeons, I enchanted a necklace to have a permanent 12ft light radius centered on me. It works great! My question is, do the bad guys see light from a player? Is there a difference in enemy detection between using nonmagical light (torches) and magical light?

I swear I've been detected more often now that I'm using the necklace, but a buddy of mine thinks that's nonsense.

So what's up with light and enemy detection?

I've been using an enchanted helm myself. Yes, the light will make it easier to be detected by the enemies.

[DarkSpade]

Originally Posted by Fallen Templar

I hate the theives guild the quest s are boring

At first, yes. The final quests, no.

[StarSlayer]

Still have not gotten really far, I think I made it to level 26, finished the first quest for the fighters guild.

and I just thought I would try and finish the Fingers of the mountain to see how powerfull the spell is, If you wait until your a higher level. boy that spell gets expensive it cast. If i remember correctly, at 26th level. it was something like 140 damage, 800+ magicka to cast.

[cbs42]

Originally Posted by StarSlayer

Still have not gotten really far, I think I made it to level 26, finished the first quest for the fighters guild.

and I just thought I would try and finish the Fingers of the mountain to see how powerfull the spell is, If you wait until your a higher level. boy that spell gets expensive it cast. If i remember correctly, at 26th level. it was something like 140 damage, 800+ magicka to cast.

Wow, 26th level without having done many quests...

This brings up a point I've seen made on some Oblivion boards about "uncontrolled leveling."

I'm sure most of you know this, but the game adjusts its difficulty based on your character's level. This is the reason why it can't be a multiplayer game as it stands -- the design is geared toward changing the whole world around the level of the player. When you level, every NPC in the game also levels. The monsters do not level with you -- they stay the same level always. But areas are designed to select monsters from lists that contain level-appropriate monsters for you. So when you go into a dungeon at an early level, you might find weak imps. Go in the same place at a higher level, and you find trolls.

Since the game adjusts to the character's level, I've seen lots of suggestions that it behooves a player to keep his level relatively low because the lower levels are more accurately balanced in difficulty than the higher ones. Obviously there is a limit to this. There are many quests you simply cannot do until you gain levels, but the overall point is that you want to keep your character at the lowest level where he can still accomplish useful tasks.

The problem is that every time you gain a total of 10 points across your primary skills, you gain a level -- regardless of whether those skills are combat skills or not. For example, let's say you gained 6 points in speechcraft and 4 points in security (assuming those are major skills). BANG -- Right when you level from this, all opponents in the game become tougher. But because of the skills you learned, you're no better able to defeat those higher-level monsters. By leveling, you've just managed to notably weaken yourself in comparison with the enemies you'll face.

It's not just the skills that suffer from leveling. Equipment becomes rapidly outdated with uncontrolled leveling as well. For example, if I level 3 levels very quickly in an hour or so (which is easy to do particularly at low and mid levels), my equipment has not changed. So I've got the same weapon with the same base damage, but now all the enemies I'm going to use it on are all 3 levels higher with more hit points. Effectively, I've managed to quickly and significantly downgraded my equipment in relation to the critters it's going to be used against.

The overall message I've observed is that leveling does not always help your character -- it can hurt your character.

Like I said before, you have to level in order to achieve certain quests, so it's not an option to stay level 1 forever. But I found it very interesting that, unlike any other game I've ever played, this game has some notable risks to leveling. I'm used to games (like World of Warcraft) where there is nothing but positive results that comes from leveling.

[Chameleon]

Originally Posted by cbs42

Since the game adjusts to the character's level, I've seen lots of suggestions that it behooves a player to keep his level relatively low because the lower levels are more accurately balanced in difficulty than the higher ones. Obviously there is a limit to this. There are many quests you simply cannot do until you gain levels, but the overall point is that you want to keep your character at the lowest level where he can still accomplish useful tasks.

I've currently at level 45, and I have to disagree with this. The monsters in the dungeons are leveled up with you, but they seem relatively weaker. Trolls? A couple of swats with my sword and they're dead. The advantages of being at the higher levels is definitely worth it. Your weapons and amor are much better. You have more powerful spells. Each skill has bonuses as you level them up. For example, my Armorer skill just reached 75, and I can now repair my weapons and armor to 125% of their max value. Your strength is higher and you can carry more stuff. I put as many level points into my Endurance, which gets translated into Health points when you level up, so my Health is over 700.

[cbs42]

Originally Posted by Chameleon

I've currently at level 45, and I have to disagree with this.

Yeah, I'm not saying you shouldn't level your character, just that leveling is not as slam-dunk of a benefit as it is in every other RPG.

Look at the two examples I used: specializing in non-combat skills, and reducing the effectiveness of your equipment against suddenly higher-leveled enemies.

Those are definite downsides to leveling, so it's not a clear black-and-white issue like it is in other games. The oblivion fansites are rife with debates about this topic, with several examples of how uncontrolled leveling can make thing very hard on a player.

Another example: A player picks Armorer as a primary skill, and also wears light armor. During the course of a short play session it is possible with light armor that you have to repair it so much that the majority of your next level comes from the Armorer increases. This is a bad situation, because that skill doesn't help you one lick in combat. You just made things harder for yourself.

For this reason, many FAQ and "tips" sections recommend that most (if not all) of your primary skills are combat related. This is one of the things that can help a player prevent uncontrolled leveling.

Again, this is not a huge aspect of the game, but a very interesting one to me, since no other game I know of has a dynamic where it's possible that leveling too quickly hurts you.

[cbs42]

Originally Posted by Chameleon

The advantages of being at the higher levels is definitely worth it. Your weapons and amor are much better. You have more powerful spells. Each skill has bonuses as you level them up. For example, my Armorer skill just reached 75, and I can now repair my weapons and armor to 125% of their max value.

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to point out that the advantages you list here have nothing to do with character level, but rather skill level. You could theoretically get to Armorer 75 while being character level 1. You would just have to pick Armorer as a secondary skill, rather than a primary one.

[Chameleon]

[quote="cbs42"]

Originally Posted by Chameleon

Another example: A player picks Armorer as a primary skill, and also wears light armor. During the course of a short play session it is possible with light armor that you have to repair it so much that the majority of your next level comes from the Armorer increases. This is a bad situation, because that skill doesn't help you one lick in combat. You just made things harder for yourself.

I just mentioned that when the Amorer reaches 75, you can repair your weapons to 125% of their max. Your sword that used to do 32 damage can now do 40. That helps a lot with combat. By the way, Light Armor is one of my major skills.

[Chameleon]

Originally Posted by cbs42

For this reason, many FAQ and "tips" sections recommend that most (if not all) of your primary skills are combat related. This is one of the things that can help a player prevent uncontrolled leveling.

I never looked at it that way, that the major skills had to be combat related. I could see if you poorly select your major skills, it can cause problems, though not necessarily with leveling. I have a feel for this with my Morrowind experience. Your major skills should have balance. For instance, you shouldn't pick Blade, Blunt and Hand-To-Hand as major skills.

[Chameleon]

Originally Posted by cbs42

Sorry for the double post, but I just wanted to point out that the advantages you list here have nothing to do with character level, but rather skill level. You could theoretically get to Armorer 75 while being character level 1. You would just have to pick Armorer as a secondary skill, rather than a primary one.

It's all tied together, the skill leveling and the leveling up. The major skills determines when you level up, the minor skills contribute to how much of a attribute bonus you get when you do level up.

[Rodriquez]

than again if yer a sorceror...it doesna matter....b/t destruction, illusion, restoration...yer set!!!

sure hit me!!!
I'll heal...
pop 5 potions.....and burn baby burn!!!

hehe

cheers

[Leif Kicker]

I am a level 2 (overall) that set up my majors as skills I rarely use. Although I am a level 2, my sneak is at 90, my armorer is at 57, and my blade is at 60. These commonly used skills were all set up as minors. My majors are hand to hand, block, blunt, heavy armor, mysticism, and marksmen, merchantile. All of these but the last two I rarely use, and the last two I control when I use. All my enemies are based on my level two, but my spells (except mysticism) are all based on my alteration (52), conjuration(45), restoration (72), illusion (57), and destruction (81). My alchemy, athletics, acrobatics, and all my "minor skills" are a minimum of appretice/journeyman level. The only challenge I have is not feeling challenged enough by one hit kill on major quests. As far as armor, I can buy higher level armor, or complete quests to get other items. May not be the way everyone want to play, but it works for me.