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  #181  
Old December 5th, 2019, 05:21 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

Is there a way we can simplify it?
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  #182  
Old December 5th, 2019, 06:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a each non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.

Removed superfluous words
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  #183  
Old December 5th, 2019, 09:22 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

That could work.
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  #184  
Old December 6th, 2019, 05:31 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

I showed the current stage of our designs to a less experienced 'scape player looking specifically for feedback on complexity/comprehension.

The response to Ozuul was actually quite positive. While they noted that Gravity Pull is a little wordy, they felt that the power's name communicated its intent clearly enough that it's usage would be clear. My impression of this is that Gravity Pull as-written is a power that they would be able to grasp how and when to use fairly intuitively while referring back to the card in order to settle the actual mechanics of it. In other words, complexity wouldn't stand in the way of the power actually being used, it would just slow down the process of using it somewhat.

I also got the sense that Ozuul has a certain attention-grabbing 'cool' factor to his design in the current stage that might not be as strong if we take a simplified direction.

This is only one perspective, though, and it's from a former MtG judge. More fresh eyes would still be useful to us here.
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  #185  
Old December 8th, 2019, 02:31 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

As long as not-currently-Heroscapers can get the gist of what it does, we might be OK. Though to be fair a Magic judge does have to be able to parse dense rules.

If we did want to go a simpler route, we could try this:


GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, choose a[n enemy] [small or medium] figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. Place the chosen figure adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull will not take leaving engagement attacks.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures adjacent to Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure adjacent to Ozuul. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.


A lot fewer words on the card, and still allows the choice between one big normal attack (for when he's just sucked in that one figure) and GCSA (for when he pulls in a critical mass). We could also even drop the "enemy figure" bit from this version, to allow him to "carry" allies around, although bonus movement is already something we have plenty of in this set.

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  #186  
Old December 8th, 2019, 05:07 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

Hmm. I think that Ozuul grabbing just one figure doesn't have the same oomph for the big bad of the set, especially if he still has the Special Attack that relies on him engaging multiple figures.

Mechanically, I think that the current Gravity Pull (choosing all figures one at a time and placing them in a loop) is harder to comprehend than Throw, which is already a pretty wordy power for what it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a each non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.
I was going to comment that I don't think that removing the end conditions for the loop won't work, but upon further reflection I think that this could actually be okay. If there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul, then it's no longer possible to keep choosing figures. Specifying one at a time already tells us that he's going to keep doing it until he can't anymore. I'm not an editor, but this seems like it could be a promising revision.

Throwing it all onto a card really quick so we can see how wordy it is:


Definitely wordy, but not as terrible as before. If we want to simplify it further, we could go with the straight 4 attack dice against all adjacent figures for his Gravity Crush, though I do like this iteration more.
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  #187  
Old December 12th, 2019, 09:11 AM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post
Hmm. I think that Ozuul grabbing just one figure doesn't have the same oomph for the big bad of the set, especially if he still has the Special Attack that relies on him engaging multiple figures.

Mechanically, I think that the current Gravity Pull (choosing all figures one at a time and placing them in a loop) is harder to comprehend than Throw, which is already a pretty wordy power for what it does.

Quote:
Originally Posted by lefton4ya
GRAVITY PULL
After moving and before attacking, Ozuul may use Gravity Pull. One at a time, choose a each non-adjacent figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. The player that controls that figure must place it on any empty space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Pull do not take leaving engagement attacks. After using Gravity Pull, Ozuul must use his Gravity Crush Special Attack and may not attack normally this turn.
I was going to comment that I don't think that removing the end conditions for the loop won't work, but upon further reflection I think that this could actually be okay. If there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul, then it's no longer possible to keep choosing figures. Specifying one at a time already tells us that he's going to keep doing it until he can't anymore. I'm not an editor, but this seems like it could be a promising revision.

Throwing it all onto a card really quick so we can see how wordy it is:


Definitely wordy, but not as terrible as before. If we want to simplify it further, we could go with the straight 4 attack dice against all adjacent figures for his Gravity Crush, though I do like this iteration more.
Just wanted to say I like the overall direction this guy is going in, and offer a quick suggestion. What would you all think of changing Ozuul's species to Outsider? The miniature certainly shares several characteristics of the revealed Outsider faction miniatures from the upcoming c3v faction. Even the "two arms branching out into two more arms" thing he's got going on is seen in another unreleased unit of this faction. Of the units revealed, he'd have some synergy with the Children of the Dark Star, but without access behind the c3v curtain its hard to say in what other ways he'd tie in to the faction's synergy. I think it is just a possible way to tie Ozuul and the Scions into the greater heroscape canon thematically.
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  #188  
Old December 12th, 2019, 01:22 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Astroking112 View Post

While the concept isn't too complicated, that does not look like a starter set card.
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  #189  
Old December 12th, 2019, 04:05 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

What do you think would make it more fitting? An overhaul? Do you feel its worse than Hulk or Torky?

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  #190  
Old December 12th, 2019, 05:08 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
What do you think would make it more fitting? An overhaul? Do you feel its worse than Hulk or Torky?
I do think it's more complicated than Hulk or Tor-Kul-Na. (Moving other player's units always will be.) I definitely do not think it would have fit in Rise of the Valkyrie. That doesn't make it wrong for this project, necessarily.
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  #191  
Old December 12th, 2019, 08:23 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

Quote:
Originally Posted by Scytale View Post
Quote:
Originally Posted by flameslayer93 View Post
What do you think would make it more fitting? An overhaul? Do you feel its worse than Hulk or Torky?
I do think it's more complicated than Hulk or Tor-Kul-Na. (Moving other player's units always will be.) I definitely do not think it would have fit in Rise of the Valkyrie. That doesn't make it wrong for this project, necessarily.
What if we combined the two powers into a single special attack?

Quote:
GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure within 2 clear sight spaces. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After attacking with Gravity Crush Special Attack, choose a non-adjacent Small or Medium figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul and move it 1 space. This figure must end this move on a space adjacent to Ozuul, if possible. Continue choosing figures until there are no non-adjacent figures within 2 clear sight spaces or there are no empty spaces adjacent to Ozuul. Figures moved with Gravity Crush Special Attack do not take leaving engagement attacks.
I also changed the wording on the pull part of the power from a placement to a single space move. This would mean that Ozuul could no longer pull enemies or allies onto height (which is actually kind of thematic, since it is a gravity based power), eliminates the ability to swivel figures around him, and also makes it much harder for him to lava-dunk enemies. Unfortunately, it does rely on the "must end this move adjacent if possible" wording from the Kozuke to prevent the Ozuul player from moving a figure away from Ozuul if there is no space adjacent to him.

Here's another alternate wording that might be even better? It's certainly more concise.

Quote:
GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range Special. Attack 1 + Special.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure within 2 clear sight spaces. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately. After a small or medium figure rolls defense dice against this attack, move that figure 1 space closer to Ozuul, if possible. Figures moved with Gravity Crush Special Attack do not take leaving engagement attacks.
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  #192  
Old December 13th, 2019, 01:49 PM
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Re: [Pod 0] Ozuul (Eldrazi Ruiner) - Editing

This removes to problem of moving other player's units, but keeps the original direction and theme.

GRAVITY PULL
If there is an unrevealed order marker on Ozuul's army card, all small and medium figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul can not move further away from Ozuul, normally or with any special power on any Army Card or glyph.

GRAVITY CRUSH SPECIAL ATTACK
Range 2. Attack 1+ Special.
All figures within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul are affected by Gravity Crush Special Attack. Roll 1 attack die plus 1 additional attack die for each figure within 2 clear sight spaces of Ozuul. Roll attack dice once for all affected figures. Each figure rolls defense dice separately.
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