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Maps & Scenarios Battlegrounds and scenarios |
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#25
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
@Chris Perkins,
thanks for bringing that up. Map sets definitely add complexity to setup, which is certainly a consideration for TDs.
For "bring maps" gatherings, map sets should still be viable as long as at least one person can provide all three. Often the host provides a few maps, right? And I also think I've seen many instances where an attendee brings multiple maps. But you're right, a 3-map set is not ideal if no one is providing more than 2 maps. For "build onsite" tournaments (like ScapeCon), it's usually at least two maps per table, right? I envision a builder taking all the terrain bricks needed for the whole map set to one table. Build two of the maps at that table (two builders could even work in parallel from the common terrain pile), then take the leftovers to wherever the third map needs to be built. No wandering around trying to find the right terrain pieces. It's still messier than building typical maps, because it's a much bigger pile of terrain to work with, but hopefully with the right approach it wouldn't slow things down *too* much. Quote:
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#26
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
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@OEAO might be able to provide more information on ScapeCon viability than I am though. It's also worth noting one category I failed to mention in my original post: online events (OHS / single day live / etc.). For them, there's absolutely no limitation and a new pool of maps would be exclusively a plus. |
#27
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
Personally, one downside I see to the "three maps from a pool of terrain" idea is that typically tournaments strive to have some variety in mapmakers represented in the total tournament pool. Putting three maps by a single person all or nothing in the pool could lead to that person being a large percentage of maps at the event. Also, if the quality of even one map in the set of 3 is low, the whole pool may not be usable at tournaments. Not trying to shoot it down, it's a very creative idea, but I feel like it has some challenges.
10 Years of Gencon/Scapecon Battle Reports - Comic Battle Reports - Probability Calculator App - Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes "It's all about the game." - Sgt. Ernie Calhoun |
#28
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
Excellent idea. As others have pointed out there are some drawbacks, but I don't believe they outway the positives.
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#29
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
On the context of the Utah scene, I have enough terrain that I could build every map, every single month, but I rarely build the maps before the event, so it saves a lot of time if I'm not the only one providing the maps. I usually play a fill role here, where I bring whatever maps aren't claimed by others. If some interesting map collections were made, we would definitely consider using them. They would just be delegated to those that have the terrain needed.
My Custom Designs.
--------------- Check out my maps. --------------- Get general Valkrill's symbol in SVG vector format. |
#30
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
Logistically, I don't think it's a problem for ScapeCon. It's fine to have three maps built out of the same sets. Just bring the requisite bags to the table and build probably two at the same time, then the third. We can always move maps around later with poster boards.
If all three in a set are great, I'd certainly consider using them! I think this is a great, if ambitious, idea, and I'm always excited to see continued progress in the map community. I also wouldn't mind seeing more of the (slightly less ambitious) two-map pairs- I'm not sure there's a single great pair out there yet, although I could be mistaken. Of course, even properly executing that is quite difficult. Edit: One other consideration in building the pool beyond balance is looking to have a diverse pool. We want some maps that are easy to play on, and others that are a bit more challenging. Of course, it can be tough to draw the line on when a map is too challenging to play on- it’s something I’m certainly not the best judge of, because I love challenging maps. But essentially, if all three maps in a set are very similar, there’s less of a chance I’d use them. Casters of Valhalla: THE Competitive HeroScape Podcast!
Last edited by OEAO; February 4th, 2022 at 06:18 PM. |
#31
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
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Judgment: 6 sets - 1 DD (water) + 2 MH + 1 FA + 1 FF + 1 TT Barrentop: 5 sets - 1 SM (sand) + 1 DD + 2 MH + 1 TT Viridis: 6 sets - 1 SM + 1 DD (rock) + 2 MH (grass) + 1 FA + 1 FF As individual maps, they average 5.7 terrain sets used; when viewed as a map set, the average falls to 2.3 terrain sets per map. If these maps were redesigned independently (with terrain substitutions), then yes, they could each be built using four terrain sets. As an example: Judgment Free |
#32
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
Hmmmm, two-map pairs.....
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#33
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
Ooh, so much GameBear map goodness to catch up on. Another great idea. Though I think I'll start conservative at 2/2 instead of the original 3/3.
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#34
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
I think you could actually make some pretty interesting maps without even doing 2/2. For instance, I believe you could make two pretty interesting maps from RotV + SotM + FotA. There have been plenty of interesting maps made from just SotM + FotA (Cage Match and Embattled Fen are two of my favorite maps ever), so replacing 1/2 SotM with 1/2 RotV at the cost of 1/2 FotA seems like it would still give you a lot to work with.
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#35
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
I was inspired by this thread to go and post a new idea.
Formerly known as capsocrates -- Remixed Master Sets - challenge yourself with new terrain combinations! -- Colorado Fall 2023 Multiplayer Madness -- caps's Customs Redux - caps's multiplayer maps - caps's maps - Seagate -- Continuing Classic Heroscape: C3V SoV |
#36
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Re: Expanding the design space for competitive maps
https://drive.google.com/file/d/1Ilh...ew?usp=sharing I wanted to take a stab at this concept. It was a fun challenge and I think I came up with some neat maps. The maps in the file above use the following: 1 RotV 1 SotM 2 RttFF 1 FotA 1 VW 1 TJ I really like the idea of breaking the 1 master 2 expansion formula. I'll be looking into making maps using the "remixed" sets soon. It was tough to stretch 2 master sets across three maps but that was a condition I imposed on myself that required a little creativity to work around. I wanted to offer a collection of maps that I thought could be made by the majority of players. If we had a few more people make map sets like this we could have some really unique map pools for events. Last edited by GeneralRolando; December 11th, 2022 at 01:37 PM. |
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