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General Random thoughts and ideas. "General" does not mean random drivel, nonsense or inane silliness. |
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#529
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Re: Decision 2016
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(As an aside, the national reaction now, with the big protests in the street, mostly just annoys me. If you are energized enough to take to the streets in defeat, it would have been a hell of a lot more productive to use that energy knocking on some doors a week ago. Get over yourself, people.) Quote:
Instead the major challenger was Sanders, and despite the insistence of many on the left that Sanders would have won against Trump, I don't think this is anything within hailing distance of a sure thing. It would have been a VERY different campaign fought over VERY different terrain, but a lot of self-styled moderates would have had a hard time filling in the bubble for an avowed socialist. I would argue Sanders was worse odds than Hillary a priori, and picking Hillary over him was basically a rational decision. (I actually thought O'Malley was the safest choice of the candidates that were available but he never got traction once Sanders siezed the "not Hillary" mantle. I suppose Jim Webb would have been a good direct counter to Trump, but he would have been exceptionally bad at turning out the base and was never a remotely realistic option to win a Democratic primary.) Quote:
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As far as the general election campaign message, I don't think there was anything dishonest about their message. Strategically, you can question the decision to emphasize character issues so much over policy, at least in their advertising. But all the policy proposals were out there, and Clinton talked about them frequently on the stump. She probably should have run more explicitly for Obama's third term, but again, that's a strategic issue. Last edited by dok; November 10th, 2016 at 01:23 PM. |
#530
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Re: Decision 2016
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http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epo...nton-5491.html As you and Veg said, while Trump energized blue collar white voters, Clinton wasn't able to energize college educated voters and minority voters the same way that Obama did. I suspect that there's more to this than just another investigation by the FBI, but I don't think there's a way to prove it either way. At the end of the day, we have a new president. I can only hope and pray that he shows more intelligence and judgment as president than he showed as a candidate. |
#531
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Re: Decision 2016
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Missing 24 Units until I have 1 of everything. Missing stuff from waves 4,7,8,9,10,13 AA,Skahen Brown & Woo My Tradeslist : http://www.heroscapers.com/community...ad.php?t=51248 |
#532
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Re: Decision 2016
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(Fun side note: the overall polling error in this election, relative the final result, will probably end up being roughly the same, and maybe a little smaller, than 2012. Yes, the 2012 where most pundits went 50 for 50 predicting who would win where, instead of 45/50 like this year.) Quote:
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#533
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Re: Decision 2016
My first time posting in this forum, but I'd concur that low voter turnout contributed SIGNIFICANTLY to Hillary's loss and high voter turnout sealed Trump's win (pardon the reddit link - the data source is good):
https://www.reddit.com/r/dataisbeaut..._vote_turnout/ http://heavy.com/news/2016/11/eligib...tered-results/ Whether this was due to hubris (most polls showed Clinton leading) or a less inspiring candidate (though you could argue that Democrats were due for a let-down after Obama, whoever it was) is pure speculation. There are arguments for both. I think one of the most interesting aspects of American politics is that 43.2% of eligible voters did NOT vote. This has been (and most likely will continue) an aspect of American politics that consistently get ignored. I know a lot of Clinton supporters (myself included, though I considered her the lesser of two evils) are upset and terrified right now. I hope the words from my favorite intellectual and astrophysicists, Neil deGrasse Tyson can provide some solace: |
#534
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Re: Decision 2016
That is a wonderful video, Jet. Thanks for sharing. Here's another one from Colbert, who I think is great:
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#535
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Re: Decision 2016
Yes Colbert, how did our politics get so poisonous?
(I used to really like Colbert, back when Bush was president and in the early years of Obama. Not so much a fan now, for things like this.) 10 Years of Gencon/Scapecon Battle Reports - Comic Battle Reports - Probability Calculator App - Reverse the Whip Army Archetypes "It's all about the game." - Sgt. Ernie Calhoun |
#536
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Re: Decision 2016
A good bit of perspective on drawing broad conclusions from the result.
There's plenty of truth to many of the "why Trump won" analyses, but at the same time, there's also some truth to all the things people would be saying if the returns had come in very slightly differently. |
#537
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Re: Decision 2016
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Over 90 million eligible voters didn't even go to the ballot this year. That's over 43% of people who have a voice and decided not to use it. Funny enough, it looks like the last election to exceed 60% voter turnout was in 1968. Who knows what the results would be if that 40+% of missing voters attended the booth. Be polite: Don't put politics or religion in your signature! Last edited by The_X_Marker; September 20th, 2020 at 10:02 PM. Reason: Fixing the quote after all these years |
#538
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Re: Decision 2016
Here I was worried we'd have problems with Trump supporters pitching a fit- turns out I should've been worried about the Clinton supporters, too. Guess the two groups aren't as different as they make themselves out to be.
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#539
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Re: Decision 2016
What caused you to worry about Trump supporters? Was there some sort of problems with them during the campaign?
Great trades with Onacara, Gypsy, SirGalahad, elltrain, generalgina, Concord, Just_a_Bill, LongHeroscaper, janus19390, and the very generous obfuscatedhippo. |
#540
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Re: Decision 2016
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Swamper, I have no idea what you're talking about, and that's probably for the best. Trump's campaign featured material swiped from white supremacist groups, and he has personally demonstrated racism, sexism, and xenophobic prejudices. It is possible to have voted for him (or not voted for him) and still to acknowledge these things, which are demonstrably true. If, in turn, you (generic "you," not any one person) can acknowledge those things are true, then you will understand why minorities may be nervous right now, and why some others might be nervous on their behalf, too. Let us hope that everything is fine, but it is reasonable to fear it is not. Don't judge others for their anxiety; you would not, I'm sure, wish to be judged similarly yourself. |
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