Atlaga and the Protectors Discussion Thread

[kenjib]

Originally Posted by killercactus

I think the trick is Deathreavers, but I need to test it.

One of those two options might work but you still have so few figures. Compared to the number of figures you get from 4th mass, blastatrons, or stingers, for similar points I just can't see these guys being able to keep up. Deathreavers help all ranged units, not just these guys, and with 5 range I'm not sure that they benefit most from them either. The minions suffer from also being rather expensive.

This isn't a bad thing though. Not every unit that comes out should be an A unit. I think these guys will be around a B or B- when all is said and done. They fill a niche but will be so-so for general purpose. We'll see when they start hitting the game table though...

[Junge Roman]

Repulsors and Protectors versus Rats and Stingers would be an interesting battle.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by kenjib

One of those two options might work but you still have so few figures. Compared to the number of figures you get from 4th mass, blastatrons, or stingers, for similar points I just can't see these guys being able to keep up. Deathreavers help all ranged units, not just these guys, and with 5 range I'm not sure that they benefit most from them either. The minions suffer from also being rather expensive.

This isn't a bad thing though. Not every unit that comes out should be an A unit. I think these guys will be around a B or B- when all is said and done. They fill a niche but will be so-so for general purpose. We'll see when they start hitting the game table though...

Fact: Rats work exceptionally well with Nilfheim, because they keep him unengaged, allowing him to bounce around the board and get the most out of his Ice Breath (flying + range + multiple attacks).

I view the Protectors very similarly to Nilfheim - as long as they stay unengaged, they can bounce around the board and make the most out of their Flying + Range + Multiple Attack combination that everyone is so afraid of. If they get tied down, they lose a ton of their effectiveness (which lies in choosing exactly where each of them want to strike, and finding the best positioning from which to do it). Plus, their fragile nature is just screaming for some low-point meat shield to take the brunt of the attacks for them.

[kenjib]

I just don't see how their extra mobility (which, granted, gives them more height advantage) can match almost twice as many stingers with the same base attack/defense. That's a lot more ability to soak up damage. Plus the stingers and 4th mass don't need as many cheerleaders/screens, so there are even more points to drop into having more figures. Furthermore, the stingers do just fine against large heroes as well, which is the main forte of the protectors.

I know it's not fair to expect any unit to compare to one of the best in the game, but my only point is that these guys really aren't going to break the game in any way or suddenly become the best of the best simply because they fly and have range. Cheaper ranged units will do very well in taking these guys out. The simple dynamic is that in order to attack they need to get within 5 spaces of their targets. That puts them in range of retaliation, and even if they've got rats with them (which their opponent is just as likely to have btw) the deficit they face in sheer numbers will eventually be overwhelming.

[Sarpedon]

Kenjib's right in my opinion. The problem is that flying isn't really flying in Heroscape; it's hopping. For this reason, without great, inaccesible-to-melee elevations upon which to perch, flying units will not get to (fully) exploit their flying ability. Flying matters even less against ranged squads, where the units can attack from afar. Without dizzying elevations in a scenario, flight is usually a waste of draft points against ranged units.

[dok]

Originally Posted by killercactus

Fact: Rats work exceptionally well with Nilfheim, because they keep him unengaged, allowing him to bounce around the board and get the most out of his Ice Breath (flying + range + multiple attacks).

I view the Protectors very similarly to Nilfheim - as long as they stay unengaged, they can bounce around the board and make the most out of their Flying + Range + Multiple Attack combination that everyone is so afraid of. If they get tied down, they lose a ton of their effectiveness (which lies in choosing exactly where each of them want to strike, and finding the best positioning from which to do it). Plus, their fragile nature is just screaming for some low-point meat shield to take the brunt of the attacks for them.

I agree with this to a degree. Moreover, protectors lose a shootout against most other ranged figures on a point-for-point basis even if they have height advantage, so it's very clear that they need to avoid pure head-to-head engagement against most squads.

However, it's worth noting that the specific rules of Ice Shard attack make Nilfheim particularly engagement-phobic against squads. That's a weakness that the protectors do not share.

[Einar Gen.]

These guys aren't warriors. They're assasins. Hero killers. So, the other half of your army needs to consist of figures that are capable of going head to head with other squads. This would probably work:

Protectors x2 220
Cyprien 370
Stingers x2 490
Isamu 500

Capable of dealing with most squads and heroes.

[Bonecrusher]

Just playtested a game against myself on Sidewinder. Armies were:

3x Protectors
Atlaga
2x Deathreavers

VS

3x Dwarves
MI
Q9

In the beginning, the reavers were sent out to grab glyphs while the dwarves slowly moved forwards. On order marker three Atlaga walks up and attempts Bolt on MI and he rolls (drumroll)........ a 17! My second successful bolt attempt in two games!

Next, the reavers have the Dwarves tied up and are standing on the Initiative glyph with Q9 picking them off as fast as they go on, the protectors killing off dwarves engaged to reavers. About half the reavers were dead at this point, one nearby Initiative another in the opponent's starting zone and another on the Lucky 20-Sider glyph. Q9 and a dwarf were near Initiative with another 4 held up in the starting zone and one engaged to Protectors. Only two Protectors dead at this point.

The Protectors win initiative. One kills the engaged dwarf. Two have height on Q9, the first scores a wound and then Q9 blanks. He has one life left. Q9 kills a Protector and the rat near the glyph. The protectors kill a dwarf, then the dwarves kill a rat and a Protector. The Protectors take aim at Q9 and kill him and a dwarf. Two dwarves are in the starting zone and the other kills a Protector. The Protectors finish them off.

There were two rats, four Protectors and a full health Atlaga left in this one. The luck was on their side though. The early bolt and some key defensive saves for the Protectors were really what pulled them through IMO. They can be really good with a rat screen methinks. The dwarves on the other hand were pretty good, but that 3 defense is what bugs me. I think they will be able to get height more but struggled to with the reavers and fliers in this matchup.

[KCU Master 2007]

I can't help but wonder why you didn't save the bolt for Q9...seems he was the bigger risk MI is a slow melee figure most effective against heros. The only one you had was Atlaga who could easily fly and evade if necessary. The proctors also have a better chance of getting CA against him.

[nyys]

I'm going to have to dust off an old map to try these guys on, I have a feeling they'll love this one.

The Mountain

[Jaz1597]

Originally Posted by nyys

I'm going to have to dust off an old map to try these guys on, I have a feeling they'll love this one.

Good stuff. I could see them really thriving on this map.

[killercactus]

Originally Posted by Jaz1597

Good stuff. I could see them really dominating on this map.

Fixed.