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  #13  
Old December 13th, 2007, 04:03 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Hero Hot Hatch
Quote:
Originally Posted by Rˇchean
Stats are more of a sliding scale, not a 1 for 1 deal.

A defense die isn't worth X number of points and lived are not worth X number of points each. Guilty is 30 points with 2 life and 2 defense. That in no way means a figure with 6 life and 6 defense is worth 90 points; it would be much more than that.

Syvarris has greater range and more life, he should be able to stay on the fringe better with his range and survive a bit longer because of his life. As similar as the units are, it isn't as easy as saying Syvarris is 3.3 times the point value so he should have 3.3 times the stats. It doesn't work that way.
You are right. I know it does not work that way "strictly" speaking, but there is definitely a strong positive correlation with the stats. One example is Syvarris = 100, Kaemon = 120 and Q10 = 150. You could argue back and forth about points but the order of value is clear to me under most circumstances for those three without a doubt. It is supported by an undeniable positive correlation in the stats.

Otherwise, it would just not make sense. My goal was to illustrate how awsome Guilty is for his cost compared to a much more expensive alternative. I have no doubt that you get more value per point with Guilty under most realistic scenarios than with Syvarris and you can add a whole other squad or range units. Try to take on any of those three combinations: Tagawa Archers + Guilty, 4th Mass + Guilty or Aubrien Archers + Guilty, and play it against Syvarris. I have no doubt of who would prevail under most realistic circumstances.

Of course, it depends on luck as in die rolls and order of turns, but the odds are against Syvarris no doubt. Don't get me wrong. I like Syvarris and he has the advantage of forcing other units stay away or move forward..., but under most scenarios, he would most likely be owned by any of the aforementioned three alternatives. In fact, a couple of squads of no defense Venoc Vipers worth 80 can get to him and finish him off. The 4th Mass alone is 4X4 with wait and fire and height advantage. Of course, the 4th Mass will have to either move away and hide or sneak in forward, which most likely will cost some lives and loose the wait then fire and height advantage in the process. But if Syvarris losses his only advantage, namely distance, and this is likely to happen. He is going down. If the map was infinitely large, Syvarris would rule the nest, but it is not. Either the bumps on the edge or crosses the line into another army if there are more than two players.

Again, I have nothing against Syvarris, but to make a long story short. Guilty is more than worth his own weight in gold. That's the bottom line of my point.
I disagree. Syvarris has more attack, therebye allowing him to kill easier, making his chance of winning go up.

Look, since syvarris is only one unit, he can put all 3 order markers on his card, allowing him to gain height faster than 2 units.

He now has 2 attacks of 4. what do samurai archers have? 3 attacks of 2, and you'll lose one or two each turn.


as for 2 squads of vipers, guilty is not in that army :P .

as for the 4th mass and guilty, I don't know. they wouldn't get the height first, and they'd lose one or two each turn.
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  #14  
Old December 14th, 2007, 05:34 PM
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I would have to say I think Syv would do fairly well in those matchups. (I well have to try those out later) However, I believe a more valid conversation would be how does Guilty compare to the other filler units. Is it better to draft him over Isamu and Marcu? Elgrimm? I don't know, but for 30 points you get 2 attacks, and range which is more than the others can say. Unfortunately he doesn't have the synergy benefits that the other fillers have. The Utgar ones have Ornak, which negates the drawbacks (Waste of Order Markers, and Eternal Hatred) Elgrimm gives a boost after he is dead, which is a distinct possibility for any "Filler" unit. The only synergy for the Cowboy is Adjacent tough for the FB which is probably going to be filled by a Samarai or Ahigaru which fits better. The only filler unit that I think he is hands down better than is Kyntela. The others depend on the situation in my opinion.

DD

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  #15  
Old April 2nd, 2008, 02:25 AM
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I grabbed guilty the other day as filler. He managed to come in between Drake and death several times but he went down hard anyway.

I think that maybe he'd be good in a castle scenario instead of say... Morsbane, Seduma, or a more expensive "guard unit". But for the time being I just consider him worthless filler as well.

He's a great unit to summon/sacrifice if that means anything to you.
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  #16  
Old April 5th, 2008, 09:31 AM
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I look at this thread again and now I'm "on the fence" on Guilty. Unless you can really spike his defense (which won't do anything if you roll like crap during the fight) or keep him far away, then you would probably have to save him for the later rounds. Sort of like pulling the goalie in hockey: if it works you might win, if not you lose.

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  #17  
Old April 6th, 2008, 10:26 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by NiteRaider
I look at this thread again and now I'm "on the fence" on Guilty. Unless you can really spike his defense (which won't do anything if you roll like crap during the fight) or keep him far away, then you would probably have to save him for the later rounds. Sort of like pulling the goalie in hockey: if it works you might win, if not you lose.
To paraphrase from my strategy guide, he is weak enough that any strategy with him is a gamble. Either place him on high quickly to make him 3/3 double attack with range 7, or hide him until you are ready to make him come out from ambush, dusting several enemies at once. Marro Warriors (a point I don't think I made in the guide) are especially vulnerable to this weak unit, since he (if on high) can take out two per round, combatting their Water Clone special power.

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  #18  
Old April 7th, 2008, 12:14 AM
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The guy's on 30 points. What do you expect? He only has to, on average, two squad figures to get his points back, which really isn't that bad. I bet he could do that half the time.

I really want Guilty... blah...

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  #19  
Old April 7th, 2008, 02:57 AM
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He's a closer, pure and simple. Take out all the enemy's ranged figures and then all their fast melee figures and after all your more powerful, higher priced fighters go down, he can run and gun whoever's left. If they can't get in range to attack him, they can't kill him.

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  #20  
Old October 26th, 2008, 01:00 PM
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Cool Dirty 30

I love the little point units. Strokes of design genius.
In the early days of custom designing, none of us saw that coming!



Guilty is one of my favorites in this category and would've secured my vote if I'd made the polls in time.

Midgame on Friday night, in an epic Einar army vs. a all-unique Hero army, I sent guilty up for turns 1 and 2 and wiped out an engaged 1-wounded Kaemon Awa on height. The dice gods were with me and I was granted twice. Sure, Kaemon had to roll incredibly crappy to die, but still it was an exemplary moment for McCreech!

I love using this Lawman! He nearly always gets his points worth of kills.
If that objective is accomplished, he can draw fire for a turn or two, sidelining your opponent's strategies.

7 Range, Double Attack for 30-points is some good fun right there, huh!

Last edited by Hex_Enduction_Hour; October 26th, 2008 at 06:55 PM.
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  #21  
Old October 26th, 2008, 02:39 PM
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Re: The Book of Guilty McCreech

i think you guys lost what this was all about. Guilty is not as good as Syv as far as being in a main fight yea (everyone knows that no offence). Guilty though it still a great filler. thats is what he is mainly used for.
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  #22  
Old October 26th, 2008, 04:30 PM
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Re: The Book of Guilty McCreech

So I tried the Guilty and 4th Mass vs. Syv scenario and Syv had it really easy, he just had to sit around and shoot whenever he pleased whereas it took a lot of work to get Guilty and the 4th Mass to win (I played a couple of times). So in no way is Guilty underpriced, he's just right.

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  #23  
Old December 17th, 2008, 06:42 PM
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Re: The Book of Guilty McCreech

Darn ol' Guilty was tearing my army apart on Monday night. Guerillinator and I got together to play few before we went our separate ways until '09.
In one game, Guilty was picking off my Tagawa Samurai just as they were powering up to deal with TKN and WSG.

The the six-shooter finished the game by shooting down Raelin and the last Samurai. He'd also killed Carr. I'm familiar with Guilty's potency, but that's 300 points of carnage asada right there.

Dang.
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  #24  
Old December 19th, 2008, 08:16 PM
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Re: The Book of Guilty McCreech

I believe it. Why am I not surprised? Guilty rules the nest any time. He is legendary and generally a lot of fun.

I don't care about choosing my army based on strategy. I choose an army based on coolness and personal appeal... even if it means that my units will die trying. Hail to the glory of HeroScape and bravery.
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